Where is my yeast?

[stever1000]

I saved my yeast cake (without washing) from my previous batch. I let it separate in the fridge, and there are 3 layers (beer, yeast, trub). But my yeast layer is really thin (in the middle)

Where is the rest of my yeast? This is a quart jar and I am worried this won't be enough in one jar to pitch into another batch of wort.

Is there some hidden in the trub? I am confused because I thought I would have more since I didn't wash it

Thanks in advance!

 

[AnOldUR]

Is there yeast in the other two layers? Certainly yes.
Would I use what you've harvested? Certainly not.

Curious. Did you dry hop in the primary?

 

[heckler73]

When you wash, you first filter out most of the trub before getting into the mason jar. Much better end result of storage of your yeasties.

If you want to do a quick and easy yeast reuse, I go with racking to secondary on the same day I brew another batch, and then just dump the new wort onto the yeast cake.

 

[heckler73]

this here (from the yeast washing thread) is basically the step that you were at before putting it in the fridge, except you're working with a very small portion of the yeast cake. When you suspend the yeast in water, it's much easier to separate from the trub. Look at that thick milky layer in the middle - all yeast and no trub.

 

[heckler73]

Sorry to say, but your jar is a lesson to be chalked up to experience and tossed.

 

[flars]

You have lots of yeast in that jar. I suspect the yeast you used was a highly flocculant strain. The yeast is mixed with the hop debris and break material. Let the jar warm to room temperature, with the lid slightly loose for CO2 to escape. Give it another light swirl to mix it all up. Let it sit at room temperature for a couple more hours, and you will see more, of the less flocculant yeast, added to the creamy layer.
I would estimate 1 billion cells per ml in the bottom of your jar. Check out this page/blog for more information on yeast harvesting.
http://www.woodlandbrew.com/2013/01/yeast-washing-revisited.html

Harvesting works even better when using a fine mesh grain bag to strain out the hop debris as you pour into the fermentor. The jar you pour, then, will look more like just yeast and beer.

 

[stever1000]

No dry hopping was done at all. I used hop pellets in the boil and my kitchen strainer wasn't fine enough I assume.

I was planning on washing the yeast but I brewed two batches in the same day,so I ran out of time and just put it in the fridge.

I used some of the yeast cake for my second brew and it fermented 1.058 down to 1.020, so maybe most of the yeast was left in the primary and didn't make it into my jars

It's good to know now that the water helps seperate the yeast better than just resting

You have lots of yeast in that jar. I suspect the yeast you used was a highly flocculant strain. The yeast is mixed with the hop debris and break material. Let the jar warm to room temperature, with the lid slightly loose for CO2 to escape. Give it another light swirl to mix it all up. Let it sit at room temperature for a couple more hours, and you will see more, of the less flocculant yeast, added to the creamy layer.
I would estimate 1 billion cells per ml in the bottom of your jar. Check out this page/blog for more information on yeast harvesting.
http://www.woodlandbrew.com/2013/01/yeast-washing-revisited.html

Harvesting works even better when using a fine mesh grain bag to strain out the hop debris as you pour into the fermentor. The jar you pour, then, will look more like just yeast and beer.

Thanks for the words. This was my first batch, so I immediately bought a nylon straining bag after I saw how much junk (hop pellets, etc) got through

There seems to be a split whether my yeast will be okay to use...

If I wash it now and make a starter before reusing it, would it be salvageable ?

Thanks!

 

[flars]

If you swirled up what was left in the primary, everything in the primary was evenly mixed. The mix you used for your second brew would have looked the same as what you poured into the jar. Unless the yeast you used for the second beer was handled differently, than what you have in the jar, you can expect the same fermentation results.
Harvested yeast is much better protected from contamination being stored under beer for short term storage, maybe up to six months.
More rinsing, of a highly flocculant yeast, will harvest the less flocculant yeast cells. These, less flocculant cells, may or may not have the same fermentation characteristics of the strain.

I strain out the hop debris pouring into the fermentor. My harvest, in one quart jar, will average 350 ml of yeast after a couple of weeks for compacting. I conservatively estimate 2.5 billion cells per ml.

 

[WoodlandBrew]

All of the yeast that has settled at the bottom is fine to use. Microscope analysis has showed that there is very little difference in viability and protein trub between the layers.

See here for details:
http://www.woodlandbrew.com/2012/12/yeast-washing-exposed.html
http://www.woodlandbrew.com/2013/01/yeast-washing-revisited.html

 

[stever1000]

Ok next time i will make sure i strain it better so i have less debris in the slurry

If the batch that i just brewed tastes okay and fermented fine it seems like the articles say my yeast is fine?

I have learned so much already from this forum, Thanks everyone!

 

[stever1000]

All of the yeast that has settled at the bottom is fine to use. Microscope analysis has showed that there is very little difference in viability and protein trub between the layers.

See here for details:
http://www.woodlandbrew.com/2012/12/yeast-washing-exposed.html
http://www.woodlandbrew.com/2013/01/yeast-washing-revisited.html

With that being said, could I use one of the jars to brew another batch? Or should I toss it and be more careful next time?
I don't want to throw it away, but I also don't want to mess up an entire brew

 

[midfielder5]

So you need to pitch the yeast into a starter, not wort, to grow the cell counts for normal OG at 5 gallons. There is not enough there to fully and cleanly ferment a regular batch. Obviously not true if you are doing just 1 gallon but the needed cell count depends on your OG too. If no time, I would simply pitch other yeast.

 

[WoodlandBrew]

Your cell density is probably between 1-2 billion per ml. It's hard to tell how big the jars are from the picture. If you can estimate the volume of settled slurry then you can estimate the cell count. If the beer that the yeast came out of was good, and everything used for collecting the yeast was sanitized then you can expect the next batch to come out well. If you want more reassurance you can acid wash the yeast using Star San:
http://www.woodlandbrew.com/2013/03/acid-washing.html

 

[tagz]

You've got a lot of seemingly healthy yeast, just a bit dirty. I would decant the beer, measure out 50 ml of slurry and pitch that into a starter. You grow a nice new batch of yeast that will have considerably less trub. Although, like woodland said, the yeast you have is probably just fine.

 

[stever1000]

Both jars are 1 quart size. I will decant the beer and make a starter for the yeast.

Thanks!

 

[stever1000]

Okay, instead of starting another thread, I would like some confirmation...

I just bottled a new batch with different yeast yesterday. I strained the batch before putting it into the primary so a lot less junk was left over after racking and bottling.

My question is, following the instructions here:
http://www.woodlandbrew.com/2013/01/yeast-storage.html

I will have four quart jars of slurry from my yeast cake.
I can store these in the fridge.
If I brew another batch within a week I don't need a starter, and I can pour the quart of slurry directly into the primary with my wort.
If I brew later than a week, I should pitch the quart of slurry onto a starter.

Do I finally understand?


what volume of starter do I need for 1 quart of slurry for a ABV of 6% or less?

If my ABV is above 6%, I would just use a larger starter, and not another quart of slurry?

 

[stever1000]

Here is the slurry from my most recent pale ale (the white on top is foam from mixing in the bucket):

This is just after I mixed the yeast cake up (no water, hardly any beer leftover) and transfered to the quart.

Question:

Because I strained the wort before it went into the primary, is this why I have a lot less slurry? It was a 5gallon batch and only got 1 quart of slurry total. Last time I got 3 quarts when I didn't strain

I assume this has a small amount of trub, so I can use approx. 250ml for 5gal according to Mr Malty calculator ?

 

[WoodlandBrew]

That sounds about right. I'm working on an article that covers some of these questions. I'll make sure to come back with a link once it is available.

 

[stever1000]

Excellent, i will look forward to the article!
Thanks