When to quit sucking

[webtoe]

That's what she said. Seriously, question about siphoning into bottling my bucket. Books and instructions all emphasize siphoning "quietly" to avoid introducing oxygen into wort/beer. However, in my last batch, as I siphoned the beer down closer to the yeast cake, I kept losing the siphon and had to rereprime by pumping my autosiphon (yes i was tilting the carboy to make it deeper where I was siphoning) This caused sputtering/spitting at the tip of the autosiphon and bubbles in the line. As I pumped the autosiphon, it also caused the beer that had already been transfered to bubble as air was pumped through the hose. Concerned with oxidizing the beer, I finally gave up and stopped siphoning, sacrificing a good 2-3 pints from the fermenter that appeared, upon inspection, to be plenty clear of the yeast cake to avoid drawing dormant/dead yeast into the bottle bucket. Now I'm concerned that I have oxidized beer in my bottles and am bummed that I wasted good beer. So for next time, what should I do? Do I keep pumping and sucking away until every last drop of quality-looking beer makes it into the bottling bucket even if there are lots of bubbles and sputtering? Or do I stop siphoning immediately as soon as I lose the siphon and just write off those last couple of beers as a cost of doing business? I should add that I think what may have contributed to the problems was that I had dry hopped, and to filter out the hops, I had zip-tied a hop strainer to the end of my autosiphon.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Sourz4life]

This happens to me when I use a siphon. I've never noticed any issues. Its hard to avoid any oxygen making it into the beer in that process without particular equipment. I just generally stop as soon as I get bubbles at the end.

 

[Biscuits]

It's going to happen, I have never experienced any off flavors from racking/bottling. I think it would take much more than a few bubbles in your line to oxygenate your beer enough to cause any significant issues.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

I made my second batch of beer, still didn't have the knack of using said siphon, over time in the bottle, the beer started changing color had an off flavor. I'm pretty sure it is from oxidation and my lack of technique at the time. Oh, also that I didn't drink the beer fast enough.

 

[YeastMode]

Full disclosure: I have eliminated the use of an auto siphon in my process. For the rare times I do need to siphon now, I just use a sanitized length of hose and do it the old "I'm 16 and have no money for gas so I am going to just borrow a bit from my well to do neighbor's car because he won't know" technique.

When they are talking about siphoning quietly, that owning reference to the splashing and disruption of the liquid when being put into the "new" vessel. I like to set the tubing against the wall of the vessel and allow it to cascade down. It almost eliminates all the splashing and bubbles.

When I was racking off the primary (and thus yeast cake) I would pick a spot in the vessel close to one side, and then when the level was so low that it was going to start sucking air soon, I would tip the vessel slightly towards the siphon. While you will suck up a tiny bit of yeast cake, what I found is that the rest of the cake would stay in place. I considered it to be a fair trade off for getting all the beer transferred.

Watch out for getting a bubble that seems "stuck" in the section where the auto siphon meets the tubing, that little bend at the very top. If you don't get a good siphon, a bubble can sometimes get there and I have found that it is a big risk in getting oxidized beer. If I got it, I would stop the siphon and try again.

As for staring the siphon, I would always start with a full siphon of starsan, and then put the siphon into the "old" vessel with the siphon in the up position. With a small pump down, the liquid would start flowing. I would let the starsan come out into an extra cup or bowl and then pinch the tubing or put my finger on the end when beer was flowing. Then put it into your "new" vessel (which was to be lower than the "old" one) and Bib's your uncle, beer flows. You should never have to pump more than that single downstroke. More than that and your are going it wrong and will be introducing air into the beer which is no bueno.

Why have I stopped using it? Because I felt that it was difficult to sanitize because of its length and was a source of oxygen introduction for very little convenience. Since I switched to stainless Brewbuckets from SS Brewtech, which have a valve on the bottom, I just gravity transfer to my secondaries and kegs. They are pricey, but they eliminate buckets and the auto siphon.

 

[IslandLizard]

You can get it down to about 1 pint with some dexterity.
Besides if you want to harvest the yeast cake, you do need about 2-3 pints to swirl it up into a slurry before you pour it into a large jar.

I guess you're using a siphon/racking tube tip that inverts the flow? Try to keep the siphon tip well under the surface, so it won't suck air. And tilting toward the end up to about 45° is good. Just have a damp (not dripping wet) towel or one of those silicone pads under your fermenting vessel to prevent it from sliding. An extra set of hands does come in handy at times.

Make sure the racking hose fits tightly around the siphon tube, use a hose clamp if needed. Any leak there can break the siphon too.

And yes, do prevent as much as possible introducing air (oxygen) into your beer after fermentation has started.

You can always train with a fermentor full of water or Starsan to get the knack of it.

 

[kh54s10]

Watch out for getting a bubble that seems "stuck" in the section where the auto siphon meets the tubing, that little bend at the very top. If you don't get a good siphon, a bubble can sometimes get there and I have found that it is a big risk in getting oxidized beer. If I got it, I would stop the siphon and try again.



Why have I stopped using it? Because I felt that it was difficult to sanitize because of its length and was a source of oxygen introduction for very little convenience. Since I switched to stainless Brewbuckets from SS Brewtech, which have a valve on the bottom, I just gravity transfer to my secondaries and kegs. They are pricey, but they eliminate buckets and the auto siphon.

I don't worry at all if there is a bubble in the tubing of my autosiphon. It is just as likely that it is co2 as air. It also stays there so it doesn't really add any oxidation of the beer.

I don't like the idea of a spigot for transfers. If I was to do one it would be as above. Stainless steel, not a cheap plastic valve. The plastic ones especially are harbors for contaminates.


I start my autosiphon by pulling the cane up, submerging the tube, when it fills - one pump gets it started. When the level of the beer gets down a way, I tip the fermenter so there is a deeper amount in the corner of the fermenter.

When the level gets really low I put the end cap down in the trub as far as it will go without sucking any up. When it sucks air there is less than 12 ounces of beer left above the yeast cake/trub. Then I take it out. Only a few times in over 85 batches of beer have I had to restart the siphon.

Make sure you don't have any leaks where air can get into the Autosiphon thus interrupting the flow.

 

[Calder]

Get the siphon going, and then rest it on the bottom of the fermenter. A small amount of yeast in the bottling bucket will not matter. You will be surprised bu how little does carry over. When it gets low (about a gallon left), carefully tilt the fermenter to get as much beer out as possible. Stop when you start seeing cloudy beer (beer+yeast) going thru the siphon.

When they are talking about siphoning quietly, that owning reference to the splashing and disruption of the liquid when being put into the "new" vessel. I like to set the tubing against the wall of the vessel and allow it to cascade down. It almost eliminates all the splashing and bubbles.

Watch out for getting a bubble that seems "stuck" in the section where the auto siphon meets the tubing, that little bend at the very top. If you don't get a good siphon, a bubble can sometimes get there and I have found that it is a big risk in getting oxidized beer. If I got it, I would stop the siphon and try again.

Running the beer down the side of the fermenter wall may be worse than just letting it drop from the end of the tube. You increase the surface area of the flowing beer increasing the risk of oxidation. You want to get the end of the tube under the liquid level as soon as possible with the least amount of surface disturbance.

Often what you see in the tubing is CO2 coming out of solution. I've found you can often get the bubble out by tapping the tubing. I guess this moves the bubble into the flow-stream and carries it out of the tube.

You can get it down to about 1 pint with some dexterity.
Besides if you want to harvest the yeast cake, you do need about 2-3 pints to swirl it up into a slurry before you pour it into a large jar.

I harvest yeast on every batch, I siphon all the liquid out. I find there is still enough liquid in the cake to get it to flow without deliberately leaving any beer behind. You have to swirl the fermenter around a bit to get it into a slurry, but it gets there. I usually get about 2 pints of slurry from a 6 gallon batch, and obviously leave a lot on the sides of the fermenter that will not come out easily. I'll often use one pint fo slurry for the next batch.

 

[ChelisHubby]

I match the amount and the pitch of calder and find it works very well.