When to cool wort for best hop flavor and aroma.

[Calder]

I don't know where to put this question so I thought the Beginners forum might get the most traffic.

I'm confused as to the best practice to get the most hop flavor and aroma.

Assuming you just use straight hop additions in the kettle at 15 minuts to flame-out (ignore FWH, hop-backs, etc), what is the best practice to extract and retain hop flavors and aroma?

When I have flame-out additions, I added the hops, and been removing the pot from the heat and leaving it with the lid on for 15 to 30 minutes, before cooling, to extract as much of the hop oils as possible. This seesm to be a popular school of thought.

I have just been reading an article "The Secret to Big Hop Aroma and Flavor" on Jamil's Mr.Malty site and it says "Getting great hop aroma takes execution, knowing your raw materials and knowing your brewhouse. If you throw hops into the whirlpool and then take two hours to cool, you will not get the effect you are looking for. We throw our late hops into the whirlpool at the last possible moment and then cool and transfer to the fermenter as quickly as possible."

This goes against the latest information I've been using.

I would like to hear what other people think.

 

[ayoungrad]

I would say that the most important thing you quoted is "knowing your brewhouse".

Everyones materials, equipment and techniques are different. Unfortunately this means there are no absolute answers to what you are asking. Trial and error will be your best means to know how to increase hop aroma and flavor on your system.

But if you bear in mind that hop bitterness, flavor and aroma are results along the same continuum, this helps to get a general idea. The longer in the boil, the more bitterness. Less time will get you flavor. Even less boil time (or time in hot wort) results in very little loss of hop oils and therefore hop aroma. The extreme of this is dry hopping with no boil and no heat and you get almost entirely hop aroma.

As far as brewer specific: some people can cool their wort in 10 minutes and therefore, FO hops result in more aroma than someone who cools wort in 45 minutes.

Daniels also mentions that FO and dry hop aroma can have different results - i.e. dry hopping results in grassier flavors. If you get a chance, read his chapter on flavor and aroma hops. I find it very helpful.

 

[aiptasia]

^ Ditto that.

Longer boil times are going to impart more bitterness from the hops to your wort and shorter lengths of time impart more flavor and aroma, which is why so many hops are divided up into either bittering, aroma or dual purpose.

This is where the "art" of brewing really comes into play. Take careful notes and don't be afraid to mix up the varieties of hops you are using and when you add them (and in what amounts) to your brewing.

 

[Calder]

Longer boil times are going to impart more bitterness from the hops to your wort and shorter lengths of time impart more flavor and aroma, which is why so many hops are divided up into either bittering, aroma or dual purpose.

This is where the "art" of brewing really comes into play. Take careful notes and don't be afraid to mix up the varieties of hops you are using and when you add them (and in what amounts) to your brewing.

You are answering the wrong question. That's pretty basic knowledge. Maybe I didn't ask the question correctly.

What I was trying to ask: Assume the recipe calls for 1 ozs of hops at 10 minutes and another 1 ozs of hops at flame-out. Which, of the following, will give you more flavor and aroma in the resulting beer:

1) As soon as you have tossed in the FO addition, you remove the pot from the heat and rapidly cool the wort, getting down to pitching temp in say 15 minutes.

OR

2) Once you have tossed in the FO hops, you remove the pot from the heat (stopping the boil, and supposedly evaporation of the hop oils) place the lid on the pot and allow it to steep and extract more oils from the hops for 15 to 30 minutes before starting to cool rapidly.

 

[jonmohno]

I think taking about a half hour or a little more to cool is like steeping, or how long it takes to reach about 150 deg. It takes me 30-40. So i consider flameout hops to mostly flavor really, if you want aroma you need to dry hop,because all that good awsome smell during a vigorous fermentation seems to come out during it and not much in the bottle. I havent used massive amounts at flamout but i think it is a waste and you may as well just dry hopp and consider flameout-flavoring,unless you have a wortchiller and cool it almost instantly.Even then your yeast will kill some aroma during its fermentation.

 

[ayoungrad]

You are answering the wrong question. That's pretty basic knowledge. Maybe I didn't ask the question correctly.

To me, the basic issue is that, with heat, oils will volatilize and you will lose aroma based on this. In my opinion, it is the heat that matters, regardless of a cover being present. If you volatilize oils, they will disappear when you take the lid off or they will disappear without a cover. Either way, they will disappear.

So the best thing is to add to hot wort (for sterility purposes) and cool as rapidly as possible. I would bet you end up with more flavor and less aroma if you allow the hops to sit in hot wort, covered or not, before cooling.

This is what I was trying to get at with hop additions mainly being a function of time and heat. This is also what the last part of your original quote suggests.

 

[ayoungrad]

BTW, I'm interested to hear where you have heard conflicting information from your quote. I think I also heard about covering prior to whirlpooling but I vaguely remember that only applying to larger-scale breweries as a result of the timing of cooling.

I tried covering the pot once and was underwhelmed with the results.

 

[bottlebomber]

The single most important thing you can do IMO, without getting technical, is to add the hops directly to the boil, and strain the wort when adding it to the fermenter. Past that, I think chilling the wort as quickly as possible.

 

[Calder]

I'm interested to hear where you have heard conflicting information from your quote. I think I also heard about covering prior to whirlpooling but I vaguely remember that only applying to larger-scale breweries as a result of the timing of cooling.

I tried covering the pot once and was underwhelmed with the results.

I don't know that I could find any particular reference/thread that got me on the lines of steeping the wort prior to cooling to increase aroma. It seemed that I read several things around the same time that indicated that steeping the hops (off the boil) after the FO addition increased hop aroma.

I had seen a lot of threads indicating this. I think the single major item that got me thinking about it was when I got BeerSmith earlier this year and when you enter the aroma hops, it asks for the steep time too. Got me thinking that there might be something to this steep time. Since then I have been steeping every beer for 15 to 30 minutes after my FO addition (if the recipe calls for one). I can't say that I've noticed any difference. I'd like to know if it is getting me better results, hence the reason for the question of everyone. If not, I'll go back to starting cooling straight after I take it off the boil and save me a little time.

 

[ultravista]

Calder - has your process changed/improved since starting this thread in 2011? How are you getting flavor & aroma now?

 

[Calder]

Calder - has your process changed/improved since starting this thread in 2011? How are you getting flavor & aroma now?

I'm still working on it. Today I remove the wort from the heat, cool to about 170 - 180 F then add the hops, stir, place the lid on the pot and walk away for about 30 minutes before cooling further.

I think I'm getting decent results. I think the aroma stays longer. It's fun to try different ways.

 

[stevedasleeve]

Here's what I've landed on FWIW: I switch off the heat, then start the immersion chiller, add the 0 minute addition and stir - whirlpool - for 10 mins. By then the wort is below 100 f, 80 in winter.

Works well for me, usually this addition is 2+ oz.

Steve da sleeve

 

[ultravista]

Steve da sleeve - what do you do then, continue chilling before pitching yeast?

 

[stevedasleeve]

Yes, it takes about 45-1:15 from flame out to pitching temp for me. I've tried hot whirlpooling, and hot 30 minute rest before chilling but I get more IBUs and less aroma flavor that way.

Cheers!
Steve