When to blend lambic to get gueuze

[triat00]

Ive been reading 12 pages of posts and didnt find any answer.

Ive done my first lambic and keept some to do a gueuze. Due to limited space and Equipment, I was wondering when to blend everything. Ive read that a gueuze is a mixt of years old lambic (e.g. 1+2+3 years old lambic = gueuze). I cant let sit a beer for 3 years (yet).

So, I want to start a second lambic, split it, then mixt the half of it (when active fermentation is done before the bugs begin their work) whit my one year old lambic. Then, in one year, ill take my 1+2 year old lambics and do the same thing with a new lambic. Then, one year latter, ill bottle the 1+2+3 years old lambics.

In theory, ill bottle a 1+2+3 years old lambics (=gueuze) and by doing the same thing every year il get a continuous flow.

What do you think?

PS: My question is not about yeast. Im using belgian yeast and brett + other bugs. I know that I can ferment other ways.

 

[Calder]

Part of the art of blending is to get a consistent product year after year. Also, when blended, the producer relies on the continuing fermentation of the sugars to provide the bottle carbonation; that too is and art to get right.

I don't care about consistency in my sours. I see no need to blend them. Maybe if I had one that was maybe too sour, I might try blending, but so far everyone has been fine for my tastes.

 

[davefleck]

Please someone smarter correct me but wasn't the blending done traditionally at the pub? Some old with the new. And post harvest some fresh fruit. Of course this was prior to large scale bottling lines

I'd imagine there are nuances lost when it's blended a while before consumption

 

[sweetcell]

i don't think that blending 2013 and 2012 now, and then adding in 2014 next year, will be the same as a traditional geuze.

first off, they never blended a fresh beer. even the youngest beer was a year old. your plan has you mixing in a beer that is only a few weeks old.

mixing 2013 and 2012 now will yield a different result than mixing 2013, 2012 and 2014 in a year's time (to do a traditional geuze, you should do this in 2015...) the fact that 2013 and 2012 will spend a year mixed together means that they'll even out and evolve on a different path than if you left 2013 and 2012 separate and only mixed them at bottling.

certainly doesn't mean that your plan won't result in a good beer... just won't be a traditional geuze.

 

[triat00]

I totaly understand what your are saying. Until the time I get the righ equipment, ill continue to do lambics and then Ill try to do a "by the book" gueuze.

On the other hand, I have some lambic left... So ill do the experiment to blend the 2012 and the 2013 lambics and I may do it again in 2014. The question I ask myself is how do the bugs will react.
If I blend a 1 gallon 2012 with a 1 gallon 2013 (no bugs yet), I think that the bugs in the 2012 will ferment the 2013. Am I right? If not, I will add new ones but I think that ill loose some flavor from the 2012...

Any ideas?

 

[levifunk]

In its inception, geuze was made by just using some young lambic to get the mature lambic to bottle condition. It was a reflection of the champagne method and learning how to carbonate beer. There really is no hard and fast rule as to the age of the young contribution or its percentage. Some breweries use 5% young lambic no older than 3 months.

Now it is common place to use 1,2, and 3 year old lambic, but there are also examples that do not fit that pattern. 1&2, 1&3, 3mo&2&3...

The main goal of blending a geuze is to balance out the variations you have in individual barrels and to create a more consistent product year to year. In homebrewing, you have such a small amount and really no variation to play with.

The other problem with homebrew is that you likely didn't do a turbid mash, or use a lot of aged hops, so getting your lambic to the 3 year mark without high acidity or getting vinegar production is rare. I would probably recommend seeing how it taste at the 18-24 month mark and hope it is still relatively balanced and then blend it with a 6-12 month old batch. Add fresh yeast and priming sugar at bottling.

What you are suggesting by mixing half of the 1 year old in with the new batch, and then mixing that a year later with a new batch, is called Solera. Many home brewers have done this with great results. Its also what New Belgium does to make beers like La Folie.

 

[Pneill316]

Ive been reading 12 pages of posts and didnt find any answer.

Ive done my first lambic and keept some to do a gueuze. Due to limited space and Equipment, I was wondering when to blend everything. Ive read that a gueuze is a mixt of years old lambic (e.g. 1+2+3 years old lambic = gueuze). I cant let sit a beer for 3 years (yet).

So, I want to start a second lambic, split it, then mixt the half of it (when active fermentation is done before the bugs begin their work) whit my one year old lambic. Then, in one year, ill take my 1+2 year old lambics and do the same thing with a new lambic. Then, one year latter, ill bottle the 1+2+3 years old lambics.

In theory, ill bottle a 1+2+3 years old lambics (=gueuze) and by doing the same thing every year il get a continuous flow.

What do you think?

PS: My question is not about yeast. Im using belgian yeast and brett + other bugs. I know that I can ferment other ways.

I may have some answers for you as I'm a home gueuze blender myself. I'm only on batch 2 and still am trying to figure it out. I've only been using my homebrews as the jonge. I order from Belgium, lambic-in-a-box, it's basically the same thing as wine-in-a-box. They are flat and filled straight from the barrel. Girardins & Oud Beersel have been the only 2 I've been able to find, though there was a Cantillon one a while back I missed out on, never saw it again. The Girardins & Oud Beersel are too totally different beers, the Oud Beersel is a typical very light, subtle, lactic lambic and the Girardins is a cidery, funky, slightly bitter, earthy beer, wouldn't think its even a lambic. When you mix the 2 is when the magic happens. Adding your own sour as a jonge can really do wonders, mine was super funky and sour and added the perfect element and complexity to my blend. I think in order to create your own gueuze blend its comes down to the right components. Your method would be as the others said and be more of a solera. It would take time and probably a lot of batches to start to get the variations needed to make a gueuze blend. I'm gonna start focusing on trying to replicate the Girardins and Oud Beersel components to be able to make everything from start to finish, but that will be years away before any of that would be possible, so for now I'll just order what I can and practice my blending skills.

My blend 2 is only 2 weeks in the bottle, no sugar added, and it's already slightly carbonated, last one took 3-5 months to get to that point. Not sure if I will have bombs on my hand, only time will tell.

 

[ahpsp]

Do you have any links to those lambic-in-a-box?

 

[Pneill316]

Do you have any links to those lambic-in-a-box?

http://belgiuminabox.com/shop/428-bag-in-box-young-lambic

 

[ArcaneXor]

How much is shipping for these?

 

[ahpsp]

Thanks, that's crazy. I never knew such a thing existed.

 

[Pneill316]

How much is shipping for these?

Expensive, I ordered 1 girardins & 2 oud beersel. It was either 100 euros or 120 euros for the shipping alone.

 

[IslandLizard]

Expensive, I ordered 1 girardins & 2 oud beersel. It was either 100 euros or 120 euros for the shipping alone.

It's an interesting concept, but the admission to play is a bit pricey.

I put a few of those in my cart. Shipping is more than the cost of merchandise. Maybe better to pick a whole bunch up at the warehouse at the end of a 2 week Belgian beer vacation, eh, research expedition.

Europe has always been ridiculously expensive for shipping. In the US we are catching up fast though.

 

[Coff]

Pretty cool idea, Ive never seen those before. The price is just too steep imo, I would rather get together with another sour beer brewer locally and blend together each of our own batches to get something a little different.

But that is a pretty cool idea, if it were cheaper I would try it.