When to add sour mash to the rest of your batch?

[stikolaboloni]

So I've been reading up on doing a sour mash which I will be trying for my next brew, as soon as I settle on a style. I realize this method to be somewhat of a shortcut than traditional souring methods but am interested in giving a whirl and am hoping someone out there can steer me clearly for my first attempt.

While I think I've got all the main points, one thing I'm a little unclear on is when, exactly, to add the sour mash to the rest of the batch? There doesn't seem to be a ton of consistency at least from the threads I've come across.

For example I've read some cases where it's added to the main mash and you proceed as normal with sparging; saw another instance or two that indicated to add the sour mash after the starches have been converted but before the boil; and then I've also seen threads where the sour mash (when finished) is heated to pasteurize for only like 15 mins then added to the fermenter after the rest of the batch has fermented a couple days

Are any of these a commonly preferred method?
Thanks

 

[OddNotion]

I added my 1 gallon sour mash to my main mash for a saison which I pitched 3711 and Brett L into. Still conditioning but the samples I had were good, light tartness in the background, i'm hoping to get more character from the Brett before I bottle. Point being that it is looking good so far.

 

[stikolaboloni]

Got it, so you just added the sour mash with your regular mash. You kind of touched on another question I had about fermenting.

My understanding is you can pitch with an ordinary yeast strain (us-05 for example) and since the souring has already taken place via the sour mash method. I was curious if then pitching with Brett or Lacto is maybe overkill or counterproductive or whatever, but it sounds like that's not really the case.

Just curious, how long are you planning on letting that condition? Seems like if the brett takes longer time to do its work and you need to age the beer anyway, then there maybe not much benefit to doing a sour mash?

 

[OddNotion]

Well the other bugs won't necessarily be overkill as my site mash only produced a lighter tartness but i'm sure ymmv. I Pam on letting this sit for 4 months or so but honestly I will not bottle before the gravity is done dropping since bottle bombs are the last thingi need. wyeast 3711 will come close to super attenuating on its own so I am expecting a more mild Brett character when the beer is younger.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Just curious, how long are you planning on letting that condition? Seems like if the brett takes longer time to do its work and you need to age the beer anyway, then there maybe not much benefit to doing a sour mash?

With a sour mash you can control how sour it gets and then let the brett lend more funk so you get a beer with a small amount of sourness but a lot of funk. Very different from a beer that is very sour with some funk.

Brett by itself can usually attenuate in 6-9 months, sometimes more, but if you add souring bacteria it's generally desirous to go much longer because you have a lot more activity from the different critters and the funk and sour elements will blend together better over time.

 

[stikolaboloni]

Noted, so there's a definite funk/sour balance in play, which I'll eventually experiment with brett and some of the other critters out there, more/less souring etc. after I become comfortable with the process.

For the purposes of what I'm doing as a noob, does anyone recommend a particular beer style for doing a sour mash? Thinking of maybe trying a stout to kind of balance the sourness with the roasted character. Just something darker I guess, like a poor man's oud bruin

 

[OddNotion]

The Saison I mentioned above was my first attempt at this. I think a Saison might not be a bad idea as the style lends itself to experimentation like this. I would tend to think a stout with a sour mash can be very hit or miss. If you keep the sour mash very light and dont let it take over then itll work. If you are looking to make something distinctly sour then I feel as if the flavors could clash.

 

[stikolaboloni]

Appreciate the feedback

 

[stikolaboloni]

Any reason I couldn't use this Rodenbach GC recipe (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f72/rodenbach-clone-224122/) and just do a sour mash and pitch with us-05? As opposed to aging with the roeselare. Obviously not true to flanders style but would the end result be somewhat passable for the sake of shorter conditioning?

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

It wouldn't be very similar.

 

[Homebrewtastic]

Any reason I couldn't use this Rodenbach GC recipe (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f72/rodenbach-clone-224122/) and just do a sour mash and pitch with us-05? As opposed to aging with the roeselare. Obviously not true to flanders style but would the end result be somewhat passable for the sake of shorter conditioning?

Jamil says it best. Sour mashing or just adding lactic acid will get you the sourness but it's not nearly as good as the bugs. It's kind of like microwaving a steak. Yeah it's still a steak but not as good as a grilled one.

 

[stikolaboloni]

Jamil says it best. Sour mashing or just adding lactic acid will get you the sourness but it's not nearly as good as the bugs. It's kind of like microwaving a steak. Yeah it's still a steak but not as good as a grilled one.

Sounds like a reasonable analogy. The wife loves sours but hates the smell of brewday, I'm hoping to microwave a steak just to keep her happy and not kick me out of the kitchen Thanks for the input

 

[OddNotion]

With bugs your brew day will be exactly the same as normal anyway. Id suggest not taking the shortcut. Make the final product the right way to get it close to what you want.