When to add Hops

[curnes]

I'm an Oregon Hop head who happens to really like the citrus finish in my IPA's. Problem is, I find this flavor in the pubs around Portland, but cannot seem to get it in my beers. I brew with a couple of friends and we make 15 gallons all grain ale at a time. For several reasons, we do not dry hop in the secondary fermenter. We've tried to delay finishing hop additions until we have completed the boil but I still don't seem to get that citrus flavor when we are finished.

My share of the beer is 5 gallons. Do you guys think that if I put 1-2 oz of Amarillo Hops (in a couple of sacks) in my Cornellius keg I could get the flavor I am looking for. Is there any reason to not try this strategy? Any other suggestions?

Thanks

 

[Scut_Monkey]

You won't get the same fresh hop flavor unless you dry hop. It is a crucial aspect of an IPA and I don't know of any way around it. 1-2oz should be fine in the keg and should add the flavor you are looking for. Why do you not dry hop?

Welcome to HBT!

 

[Rick500]

I get the best hops flavor and aroma in my IPAs when I add most of the IBUs at 15, 10, 5, and 0 minutes, and dry hop.

I usually do a 60 minute bittering addition, then 15, 5, 0, and dry hop.

 

[david_42]

I dry hop IPAs and Pales in the keg. I've even re-hopped after 3-4 months.

 

[shortyjacobs]

I get the best hops flavor and aroma in my IPAs when I add most of the IBUs at 15, 10, 5, and 0 minutes, and dry hop.

I usually do a 60 minute bittering addition, then 15, 5, 0, and dry hop.

This right here is your answer.

Add lots, add late.

 

[bosco_NJ]

would FWH (first wort hopping) add the flavor the OP is looking for also. i've never FWH yet but plan to for my next IPA. but from what i've read it adds flavor as if you added the hops at the 20min and under additions.

 

[BendBrewer]

I cheat and use a french press along with the late additions.

It's like a poor man's Hop Back.

 

[Gremlyn]

You really need to dry hop, there's no way around it, but you'll get a much better hop flavour if you cool your wort to 180F before adding the flameout hops.

 

[deviousalex]

I cheat and use a french press along with the late additions.

It's like a poor man's Hop Back.

Here's an article on making your own hop back
http://www.bodensatz.com/staticpages/index.php?page=20020429191318951
Seems you need a counterflow chiller though

 

[BendBrewer]

Here's an article on making your own hop back
http://www.bodensatz.com/staticpages/index.php?page=20020429191318951
Seems you need a counterflow chiller though

Right, as I said, a POOR MAN'S hop back. 14 bucks at Macy's. Works like a charm.

 

[bosco_NJ]

You really need to dry hop, there's no way around it, but you'll get a much better hop flavour if you cool your wort to 180F before adding the flameout hops.

that what i did on my last IPA and noticed a more pronounced hop flavor than my previous IPA's.

 

[shortyjacobs]

would FWH (first wort hopping) add the flavor the OP is looking for also. i've never FWH yet but plan to for my next IPA. but from what i've read it adds flavor as if you added the hops at the 20min and under additions.

IMHO, the "20 min" rule means to assume you'll get about the IBU contribution of a 20 min addition.....not the flavor of a 20 min addition....I find I get a smooth, mellow bitterness with FWH, but I don't get a pronounced aroma unless I do lots of late additions as well....

 

[bosco_NJ]

IMHO, the "20 min" rule means to assume you'll get about the IBU contribution of a 20 min addition.....not the flavor of a 20 min addition....I find I get a smooth, mellow bitterness with FWH, but I don't get a pronounced aroma unless I do lots of late additions as well....

cool, so you would still add your flavor hops at 15, 10, & 5 for example. and still FWH? i'm w/ the OP and am looking to get more flavor not necessarily more IBU's.

 

[shortyjacobs]

cool, so you would still add your flavor hops at 15, 10, & 5 for example. and still FWH? i'm w/ the OP and am looking to get more flavor not necessarily more IBU's.

Yes. When I'm going for a true hop monster, (both in bitterness and in flavor/aroma), I:

FWH - gives smooth, "background" bitterness
60 min bittering - gives the harsher bitterness...bitterness with bite!
20 min - some bitter, some flavor, some aroma
10, 5, 1, 0, or something like that - more and more aroma/flavor
Dry hop - gives that fresh ZING of hops

 

[Gremlyn]

Hmm, this is saying that flavour will peak at a 20 min addition, though they don't back it up with a source or experiment, so I'm skeptical...
http://www.brewsupplies.com/hop_characteristics.htm

 

[badhabit]

Try using 2 oz of your favorite US hop at dry in addition to your best hop schedule, it works for me!

 

[shortyjacobs]

Hmm, this is saying that flavour will peak at a 20 min addition, though they don't back it up with a source or experiment, so I'm skeptical...
http://www.brewsupplies.com/hop_characteristics.htm

Yeah, I'm still confused about that chart...I've seen it a bunch...To me, flavor and aroma are tightly linked. How could you have maximum flavor with no aroma, or tons of aroma with no flavor?

Try plugging your nose and eating some food, you'll find it's far blander. In fact, most can't tell an apple from an onion from a potato with their nose plugged.

 

[curnes]

Thanks for all the responses. You guys are great.

I am not opposed to dry hopping, it is just that we rack from our conical fermenter into a 15 gallon keg for the secondary. I think it would be very difficult to get the hops back out of the fermenter when we go to keg the beer. I was looking for a way dry hop in without involving our secondary fermenter.

Regarding the french press, can you tell me the best way to use this? I have one in the cupboard.

 

[shortyjacobs]

Thanks for all the responses. You guys are great.

I am not opposed to dry hopping, it is just that we rack from our conical fermenter into a 15 gallon keg for the secondary. I think it would be very difficult to get the hops back out of the fermenter when we go to keg the beer. I was looking for a way dry hop in without involving our secondary fermenter.

Regarding the french press, can you tell me the best way to use this? I have one in the cupboard.

Dry hop in the final keg! I'm guessing you transfer from your 15 gal secondary to 5 gal cornies? Use a 3" stainless steel tea ball, or just a muslin bag soaked in starsan. Works GREAT. Tie a bit of unwaxed, unflavored floss around the bag/tea-ball and either run it up and out of your keg, or tie it off on the inside, (I personally like this idea: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/easy-solution-dry-hopping-keg-174571/ ). Then, after your desired dry hopping time pull the bag/ball out with the floss.

I do almost all my dry hopping in cornies prior to serving, and it works great. (In fact, sometimes I put a beer on tap, figure it needs some dry hopping, and just toss the bag/ball in and keep drinking it. It's nifty to see how the flavor profile changes day-by-day.)

 

[curnes]

Thanks, I like that. I was thinking of 2oz Amarillo for a week in the corny. Sound reasonable?

 

[Buffman]

I cheat and use a french press along with the late additions.

It's like a poor man's Hop Back.

One of my favorite commercial brews uses a hopback. Can you tell us what you do? I'm guessing you measure leaf hops into the press and fill with hot wort, but how long do you let it go and when to add it back?

 

[Scut_Monkey]

2oz of amarillo should work just great. I would use either a small-medium hop sack or the SS "tea" balls you can buy from Walmart for $1.99. Either of those will work great. Make sure you attach a string to fish it out later if you choose to.

 

[curnes]

Put in the Amarillo, waited about a week and it came out really good. Could stand to be a tad bit more bitter (will put in an oz. or two more of bittering hops) and will put in a bit more in the keg for for more citrus. But, I think I am on track.
Thanks for all the input guys.
Still cold and rainy in the NW- hope to see the sun again soon and some summer brewing.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

When you say you will add an oz or two of bittering hops do you mean for the next batch? The way I read it it sounded as if you were going to dry hop with bittering hops.

 

[BendBrewer]

Put in the Amarillo, waited about a week and it came out really good. Could stand to be a tad bit more bitter (will put in an oz. or two more of bittering hops) and will put in a bit more in the keg for for more citrus. But, I think I am on track.
Thanks for all the input guys.
Still cold and rainy in the NW- hope to see the sun again soon and some summer brewing.

Start by adding a half an ounce to your bittering hops. A little can go a long way.

 

[curnes]

Sorry for the confusion. Will be brewing again this weekend and will be adding bittering hops to that batch.
I have an additional question. I want to check the conversion rate of our mash process. I understand I can pull out some of the liquid from the mash tun, and drop a couple of drops of iodine in it to see if it reacts with a color change. Can i use iodophor for this process?
Thanks,