When does the yeast flocculate

[Jokester]

Does the yeast flocculate when all the sugar is gone, or when its hit its alcohol limit.
I got a good flocculation when I made a 11% mead. However I am making something close to 14% using voss kveik which has a 14% abv tolerance.
I am begining to think I'll never get flocculation cos as it gets to 14% it will go slower and slower and slower but never get there.
What if I added some vodka to it pushing it over 14% thereby killing the yeast. Then would it flocculate ?

 

[Jokester]

To hit 14% from 14lb honey (1.098 OG) I need to get to .991 FG. There's no way I'm thinking it will get there, at some point near .996 I'll put it in the secondary. Anyway I have a week to see if it flocculates and goes clear.

 

[Miraculix]

It floccs out when it goes dormant. This can either be because of elevated alcohol levels or because there is no fermentable sugar left.

 

[Jokester]

I'll wait it out, I'll do a SG check about the 10th (making it a month at that point) and if its under 1.00, I'll just let it go till it goes clear.

 

[msimpson99]

I recently did a pressure fermented mead. After two months it still was not clearing up. I decided to break it down into smaller vessels and cold crash it for a week or two. Still nothing. I recently had a mead that was so crystal clear and tasted so nice, that I looked it up in my journal. The only thing that set it apart from other meads made during that time was that I added Campden tablets.

I added a dissolved Campden tablet into each vessel, and they started to clear. Just be sure it was the Sodium Metabisulfite, I added 1 tablet to a single carboy a week before the rest. And yes, it is clearer.

 

[Jokester]

I'll keep that in mind. But I just checked the gravity (4 weeks in) and its 1.03 now. It had an OG od 1.098. Its also sweet as the dickens. I am thinking I wont bother this till it gets clear, I want to be at 1.00 or under if it will ever get there. Its fermenting albeit slowly. You think a few days of DAP would help get it going again. I had my other 2 ferment like it was boiling in the first few days. This one was pretty good, but nowhere near the prior batches.

 

[msimpson99]

When I get that low and the fermentation stalls, I hit it with a little more yeast and nut. If it is really stuck, I pull out the guns and use a wine yeast that is good for starting stalled ferms.

 

[Jokester]

Its still fermenting. Not quite stalled. I'm seeing bubbles etc. Sadly its not ripping along like the other 2 batches did in the first few days. I dont think I fed it enough in the first few days. I ran low and then out of DAP. I may need to feed now ? Or put in secondary in a week and feed it ? Or leave it to clear ?

 

[Jokester]

I'm really leaning toward 1 habanero and 1 mango in the secondary and well, feed it in the secondary and let it rip (if it will) And maybe add more voss kveik. Or you recommend a different strain ? This is for 5 gal total volume. Is 1 mango and 1 habanero enough ??? Maybe I add mango juice 1-2 cans and 1 habanero ? Or you guys suggest a different fruit ? What will suppress the taste of Voss Kveik a little ?

 

[Miraculix]

Never ever throw dap into an active fermentation that is already that far in progress. Never.

You need to wait and let it alone for at least two weeks.

 

[Jokester]

Never ever throw dap into an active fermentation that is already that far in progress. Never.

You need to wait and let it alone for at least two weeks.

Ok Thanks for telling me that. I will wait it out.

 

[Miraculix]

If you can manage without opening it, you can swirl it a bit every now and then to raise the yeast a bit. But don't open it.

 

[Jokester]

I have to open it to swirl it, and I opened it yesterday just to see if the top is looking normal. It was. Its got a thick cap of raisins on top as well. All looked normal and smelt nice, like honey with a whiff of alcohol.
Today is week 4 exactly. I am fine letting it run 2 weeks or even longer.
I'll do a gravity check in 2 weeks or even earlier if it clears.

 

[Homebrew Harry]

I agree with just giving it all the time it needs to do its thing

 

[Jokester]

This mead is at 1.035 or so at last check. Basically it has 5lb honey unfermented in 5 gal.
I should add 4.4 oz of honey to bottle carbonate per the calculator. So I could bottle it at 1.002 or there abouts. Since that's not possible to see on the hydrometer, I should just shoot for just above 1.00. Especially if it has gone clear by then. I'm skipping the whole secondary in that case, and likely getting some lees in the bottles I guess but I think it will sediment out in the bottle and get it all cleared in the bottles. Cos it will be sitting in the bottles for a few months too.

 

[Deadalus]

When it's floccing ready, that's when!

 

[Jokester]

LOL.

 

[Jokester]

I now have this mead at 1.006. Still cloudy. I am thinking it has just about 3-4 oz honey left unfermented in the 5gal batch. 1lb = 35 points, I have a little over 1/6th that amount, so maybe just under 3oz. I could bottle this and wait for it to clear and condition etc etc. Or should I leave it in the primary to really get to flocculation (god knows when that might be).
To taste it, yea I taste its a shade sweet but very nice and even at this point its 12% abv. So a rather potent drink that also tastes good to boot.

 

[IslandLizard]

This mead is at 1.035 or so at last check.

What do you use to measure gravity, a refractometer?

 

[Jokester]

No, hydrometer. The same hydrometer I used for all prior measurements.

 

[Miraculix]

Keep it in the fermenter till it's completely clear (as long as the fermenter is air tight).

 

[IslandLizard]

No, hydrometer. The same hydrometer I used for all prior measurements.

Ah, OK. That's the only way to get the correct gravity, yes.
Refractometers, even when using a correction formula, are still not accurate enough.

I now see you're at 1.006. It's getting there.
I would let it be for another month, or longer, until it's clear.

 

[Jokester]

No fermenter is not airtight really, but seeing as now it is 12% abv, it should be OK right.

 

[Jokester]

I managed to stir it all the way to the bottom without an overflow. Its settled since then but still cloudy, but really the top 1-2" is looking clearer than the rest. hope it clears soon.

 

[Jokester]

I read 1.00 even today. So 2 weeks for it to drop 6pts. Perfect, I'll bottle it when it goes clear, or reads .995 or so or in 2 weeks - or make it memorial day weekend. Whichever comes first. If it goes clear, I'll drop it into a secondary with priming honey for a day or 2 till it clears in there. If it doesn't clear, WTH, might as well bottle it with all the cloudiness., what's a little lees with there's a million of those in suspension.

 

[Jokester]

Its still too close to 1.00 to my liking, its is a shade under but in 2+ weeks hasn't moved much. It may be .998 at best. It has cleared a good bit, but not like that first batch, which also had a dark honey I started with. I'm not sure I'll bottle it memorial day, I might secondary it with more raisins and hibiscus tea.

 

[Jokester]

Can I feed tsp in the secondary for the first 5 days, its actually not very fizzy at all. But the darker hibiscus color I think may help it look like my first batch did and I may see that its done after all.

 

[Jokester]

I didn't even put it in the 2ndary. It seems to have cleared a lot. I may just put in 2ndary in a few days with priming honey and bottle it right after.

 

[Jokester]

My 4th batch also cleared up and I let it stay in the primary over a month more than needed - just was busy with summer trips and so on. OG 1.105 and FG 1.002 maybe. ~13.7 abv, and still plenty of left over sweetness from honey. It cleared up extremely well in the primary itself, and all of it was in a 78-100+ degree house (no AC through much of summer even upstairs, no AC worky downstairs even now). Getting ready to bottle it now.

 

[MightyMosin]

I see that you are basically done but I'll chime in anyway.

A high flocculating yeast will start to drop before fermentation is finished. Yeast need calcium for flocculation to occur; at least 50ppm. If you use soft or distilled water you may need to add this.

Degassing 2x daily through the 1/3 sugar break will help keep them in suspension. Then go to stirring 1x daily until 2/3 sugar break. You should have enough CO2 happening that you don't have to worry about oxygenating the must. Once you have hit that 2/3 sugar break, you can let them start to fall out of suspension.

DAP cannot be used by yeast once the must/mead are at ~9%ABV.

 

[Jokester]

Oh, OK, I added DAP for the first 5 days and a new yeast packet to re-start a dead/dying fermentation. But I'll learn what sugar breaks are and try this. I barely de-gassed this by stirring, but I did once a few weeks ago right after it flocculated, and it flocculated again and was even tighter and clearer 2nd time.

 

[MightyMosin]

Sugar break is when the yeast have eaten 1/3 and 2/3 of the available sugar.

Take your starting gravity and multiply by .66 and .33 respectively to get your breaks,
If you are doing a TOSNA nutrient schedule, your last nutrient addition happens at the 1/3 break.

If you use an online TOSNA calculator it will list the 1/3 break.

 

[Jokester]

Flying by the seat of my pants. I did 5-7 days of DAP for the 4 batches I make so far. 1 Phenomenal success, 2 failed (mostly my ignorance and leaving it in a cold 55F house while I was in India ~2 months) 3 and 4 - too sweet to hit it out of the park like 1. Batch 5 is 12 lb and likely fermented 2-3 months with a good high temp (like 75-85 - no 55F). And Batch 6 likely even higher, on a heating pad.