When did you stop extract brewing?

[Hoppy2bmerry]

I moved from extract after my 3rd brew. I did it to avoid pales being too dark and a little off the mark. This issues I had were more about being a noob. My first AG BIAB was a success, I was happy with the flavor and color, and mostly I do AG now.
With that said, I’ve learned about how to do extract with steeping grains brews properly, and when I need some beer for an event or party and I’m a little short on time I’ll do an extract brew. The last one I brewed placed 2nd in a fairly sizable competition. Confirming it was good and not just drinkable.
So here’s the information that improved my extract brews: Use distilled water, the correct mineral content is already in the extract. Y

 

[kartracer2]

The bottom line is there is no “wrong” way to make beer. Do what works for you. You are the one who has to drink it.

I almost spit a little coffee out when I read this,,, the second time. LOL. "has to drink it", like it's a bad thing,,, I mean "please, don't,, don't make me drink,, ah, ah,," BEER" ! Nooooo!
I hope every one is staying safe and healthy.

Joel B.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

^^^ Or if it’s really bad, you're the one that will have to dump it.

 

[bwible]

Every one of us has made that batch we couldn’t drink and wouldn’t wish on our enemies. Its a sad occasion when we have to pour one out. But hey, it happens.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Extracts come in extra-light, light, amber, dark, pilsen, and wheat.

Briess makes additional styles of DME & LME; I've used the additional DME styles with good results. Williams Brewing Supply offers a number of additional styles of extract as well (currently, no personal experiences with their products).

the correct mineral content is already in the extract.

People have been adding small amounts of gypsum or calcium chloride to extract beers to enhance the flavor for decades (book reference to recipes from the 1990s available upon request). I've been doing it occasionally for a number of years - small amounts of brewing salts will make a good extract+steep beer taste better. And a small amount of a single salt goes a long ways. Based on personal experience, anticipate that mineral content of the specific brand/style of extract can vary from other brands/styles (additional references available upon request).

 

[dnr]

I just ordered 36 lb of Briess gold LME because Northern Brewer is back to free shipping over $60.
And it saves $35 by ordering 6 x 6 lb rather than order 2 or 3 at a time.
Gold is "pale malt with a little CaraPils" so that sounds good for general ale brewing. I've only used wheat and Pilsen so far.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Gold is "pale malt with a little CaraPils"

... and for those who need to know more about the base malt:

CBW® Pilsen Light malt extract and CBW® Golden Light Malt extract are close behind this pair. At 99% Briess Pilsen Malt and Briess Brewers Malt, respectively, and 1% Briess Carapils® Malt, ...

https://web.archive.org/web/2017092...ducing-the-first-briess-single-malt-extracts/

 

[dnr]

I had a quick boil over on my second Brew because I was trying to stir in some hops...I couldn't have stopped it if I tried. After doing some research, I found that LME isn't needed to be in a 60 minute boil. So I boil my bittering hops for 60, adding my malt and flavoring hops at 15, then more hops at flameout.
It's supposed to keep my SRM closer to where it should be and not even close to boiling over.

You all have opened my eyes.
Thanks! I am not a loser, Dad!

 

[hootowl]

I had a quick boil over on my second Brew because I was trying to stir in some hops...I couldn't have stopped it if I tried. After doing some research, I found that LME isn't needed to be in a 60 minute boil. So I boil my bittering hops for 60, adding my malt and flavoring hops at 15, then more hops at flameout.
It's supposed to keep my SRM closer to where it should be and not even close to boiling over.

That's why I use a 10 gallon boil kettle.

 

[wepeeler]

I did extract for about a year. It was great experience to get the basics down. Switched to all grain, and my beer has been infinitely better. It's a forever learning hobby, which I find both interesting and rewarding. I went with a propane burner and BIAB. I would highly recommend going all electric. That would be my only regret. I love the way I do it now, but there are some really nice all in one devices that will work great for small spaces. Clawhammer supply, Grainfather and Spike is coming out with one soon.

I find switching to all grain adds complexity to beer that just isn't possible with LME/DME. I know people have won awards with extract beer. I get it. I'm not here to step on anyone's toes or start a ME vs AG argument, but for me personally, my beer improved immensely after making the switch.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Briess makes additional styles of DME & LME; I've used the additional DME styles with good results. Williams Brewing Supply offers a number of additional styles of extract as well (currently, no personal experiences with their products).


People have been adding small amounts of gypsum or calcium chloride to extract beers to enhance the flavor for decades (book reference to recipes from the 1990s available upon request). I've been doing it occasionally for a number of years - small amounts of brewing salts will make a good extract+steep beer taste better. And a small amount of a single salt goes a long ways. Based on personal experience, anticipate that mineral content of the specific brand/style of extract can vary from other brands/styles (additional references available upon request).

Yes of course one can add more to further influence the desired outcome, but one would do better first knowing what their water profile is to begin with. The point being, with extract mixed in distilled water there is no guessing and the finished beer is for the most part as it should be.

 

[corkybstewart]

I'm still new to this Homebrewing thing. Starter kit came with LME and so I purchased more because that's what I learned with. So now I have a small inventory of LME.

In order to switch to BIAB/all grain/partial grain, I'd have to upgrade to more than just a kettle on my kitchen stove.

I currently don't have a ton of space, no garage, not a great basement, yadda yadda...
I was in the process of buying a house with a dope garage used for motorcycle restoration. That's on hold now.
Thanks, Corona!

Anyhow... When should I begin to upgrade? How long am I able to brew with LME (and maybe steeping grains) before I'm an old loser?

Thanks.

I got tired of extract brewing back in 1993 after a year. It just seemed too easy, like making cakes from a box. What fun is a hobby if you can't make it super complicated?

 

[wetmk]

Started this hobby around 1992, extract and steeping grains. For better or worse, worked my way through most of Papazians recipes. After two years gave AG a shot. I went out and bought a plastic Phils Lauter Tun and proceeded to make five in a row of the most astringent beers imaginable. Gave up on AG, went back to steeping and extract for the next ten years. Which was OK as by then I pretty much wanted to drink only hoppy APAs which was quite doable. Then the AG bug hit again. Picked up a 10 gal cooler and a bazooka screen, still using them 15 years later. It was all AG for about the next ten years. But as to when I stopped extract brewing the answer is never. I'm open to many different methods and use them. I have around 200 lbs of grain in my garage, I also have 60lbs of DME (I find it so much easier to use than LME). While the great majority of my beers over the last three years have been AG lately I've found that Partial Mash is working for me. The last 10 brews were 1 AG, 1 Extract, and 8 PM. The AG was terrific as were most of the PM. The 15 minute extract was fine and a quick plug into my dwindling pipeline. It's all good.

 

[hootowl]

Wetmk that was an enjoyable read.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

... "the next level" ... maybe home brewing is just a big bag of ingredients and techniques - and one gets to chose which ones help them make enjoyable beer.

 

[bwible]

What fun is a hobby if you can't make it super complicated?

It’s what we do - we drink and we know things. Or we drink and we overthink things.

 

[bwible]

I stopped using extract about 6 batches into it. It was just a matter of principal for me. The manufacturer makes a batch of wort from grain and then removes most of the water so they can ship it and sell it to you. Then you put the water back. It's not exactly the same but it seems a lot like instant iced tea mix. I know some people like the tea they get from that product but I'm more of a brew your own type.

Here’s a different way of thinking:

- I buy meat from the butcher. I didn’t raise the animals or butcher them myself. So is it “cheating” every time I have a hamburger or a hot dog or a philly cheese steak sandwich?
- I buy vegetables from the supermarket. I didn’t plant them or grow them myself. So it is “cheating” every time I eat a salad?
- I found these fantastic instant mashed potatoes that come in an envelope, are ready in 5 minutes and everybody I know who’s had them say they can’t tell them from scratch. So is it “cheating” when I eat these?

Even with brewing, none of us is self-sufficent. Who grows and malts all their own barley? Who grows all their own hops and if they did, how would they know the alpha acid to use them unless they owned a laboratory?

I don’t change my own oil. I pay somebody to cut my grass. I do make instant iced tea. And I like it. My wife makes cakes from a box mix. Just made one for our daughter’s birthday. And it was good. Used store bought canned frosting too.

Using extract is just paying someone else to do some of the work and make life easier for you. None of us has a problem with any of these other areas of life where people are all paying others to do the exact same thing.

I’m just wrapping up a 7 hour brew day to make 3 gallons of English Barleywine from grain. Had I used extract, I probably could have been done in 3 hours.

 

[Harleybrew32]

ok one more thing, after i brewed a few batches, I thought man All Grain must be really hard but the beer must be way better then the stuff i was making. also after seeing some of the recipes i was like whoa thats alot of stuff and time.
then i got a recipe for a BIAB from a friend, i followed his instructions and man that beer was awesome compared to my other beers. so i thought I had to ditch the extract and start moving up to all grain.
so after i got doing all grain i realized it was my process that needed the tweaking not giving up on extract.
so now i brew all grain mostly because its relaxing to me and i enjoy it. but i will still throw down a tin can kit if i need a quick beer or some DME/LME kits too.
sorry i get rambling sometimes and forget my point.
cheers

 

[dnr]

So what would you say was the change to your method that made the biggest difference? Is it that brewing AG have you a better understanding of what you were doing?
Like the analogy of baking or hamburgers... If it's apre-made thing in abox, you can easily cook or bake it and it can come out well, but if you understand baking from scratch or how a burger patty is made, it would probably elevate your ability to make it better?

I've never butchered a cow, but understanding the Maillard reaction, fat content, the type of meat in the patty, my own cooking applications will mean the Bubba burgers will come out better than if I just threw them in a frying pan on mefium-high then flipped.

Or at least I would think.

 

[bwible]

So what would you say was the change to your method that made the biggest difference? Is it that brewing AG have you a better understanding of what you were doing?
Like the analogy of baking or hamburgers... If it's apre-made thing in abox, you can easily cook or bake it and it can come out well, but if you understand baking from scratch or how a burger patty is made, it would probably elevate your ability to make it better?

I've never butchered a cow, but understanding the Maillard reaction, fat content, the type of meat in the patty, my own cooking applications will mean the Bubba burgers will come out better than if I just threw them in a frying pan on mefium-high then flipped.

Or at least I would think.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with knowledge, understanding and learning. Anybody can go as far down the rabbit hole as they like. : ) More understanding is only going to help you.

I’m just making the point that for the majority of us this is a hobby. As much as we want to compare ourselves to professional brewers - we’re not. I’ve been brewing off and on for almost 30 years. I brew all grain. Occasionally I brew extract. I used to own a homebrew shop and teach brewing classes. And with everything I know I’m never going to be a professional brewer for a working brewery. Not gonna happen.

When one does something for a living it becomes a whole nother matter than when its a hobby for fun. Reminds me of when I used to bowl and how that hobby was completely ruined for me by all the guys who wanted to be pro bowlers and took it WAY too seriously. Everybody averages 210 or more and they hand out a dozen 300 rings now every season. I haven’t bowled now for about 10 years and I don’t miss it.

Agreed, no professional brewers are using extract just like Ace of Cakes is not using a box mix. Absolutely.

But when its a hobby and we’re doing it for ourselves for fun or for our own recreation and to make something for ourselves that we enjoy then we don’t need to be super knowlegable and understand every aspect as deeply as the professionals do. Water chemistry alone is about a bachelor degree course.

If something makes your day easier, quicker, or less stressful and you can still get satisfactory results then there’s nothing wrong with that. If you want to persue it further and learn more and go way deeper then there’s nothing wrong with that either. This hobby can be as complex as you want to go or as simple as you want to make it.

Use extract, don’t use extract - its your choice. But nobody should call anybody else names or look down on anybody else because they choose to brew one method or another. That’s what I was responding to in the original post. : )

 

[dnr]

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with knowledge, understanding and learning. Anybody can go as far down the rabbit hole as they like. : ) More understanding is only going to help you.

I’m just making the point that for the majority of us this is a hobby. As much as we want to compare ourselves to professional brewers - we’re not. I’ve been brewing off and on for almost 30 years. I brew all grain. Occasionally I brew extract. I used to own a homebrew shop and teach brewing classes. And with everything I know I’m never going to be a professional brewer for a working brewery. Not gonna happen.

When one does something for a living it becomes a whole nother matter than when its a hobby for fun. Reminds me of when I used to bowl and how that hobby was completely ruined for me by all the guys who wanted to be pro bowlers and took it WAY too seriously. Everybody averages 210 or more and they hand out a dozen 300 rings now every season. I haven’t bowled now for about 10 years and I don’t miss it.

Agreed, no professional brewers are using extract just like Ace of Cakes is not using a box mix. Absolutely.

But when its a hobby and we’re doing it for ourselves for fun or for our own recreation and to make something for ourselves that we enjoy then we don’t need to be super knowlegable and understand every aspect as deeply as the professionals do. Water chemistry alone is about a bachelor degree course.

If something makes your day easier, quicker, or less stressful and you can still get satisfactory results then there’s nothing wrong with that. If you want to persue it further and learn more and go way deeper then there’s nothing wrong with that either. This hobby can be as complex as you want to go or as simple as you want to make it.

Use extract, don’t use extract - its your choice. But nobody should call anybody else names or look down on anybody else because they choose to brew one method or another. That’s what I was responding to in the original post. : )

I appreciate all fully respect your post. I was more asking about honing one's craft. @Harleybrew32 mentioned their method being the issue. I was likening your comment to what they were saying. Not that it's cheating perse, but a less time-consuming way of getting a desirable result.

I don't think badly of anyone brewing extract. I brew Extract. I just purchased 36 lb of LME because it's convenient and cost effective for my budget.
I just wanted to get an idea of when it is time to advance in this hobby, if at all. I'm happy this board exists. My wife read through a few posts and said she likes this community and therefore, my hobby.
...And I like that because it means more beer!


I more meant that if I understand the chemistry and physics (science) behind a good mashed potato,I might make a boxed mashed potato REALLY well.
i didn't understand alpha acids until I bought my own hops and tried my own recipe. Brew kits didn't explain that to me. Biotransformation is something I've done research on and now I know why to/not to dry hop a high krausen.

I just like to learn and want to advance my knowledge as much as possible.

 

[hootowl]

Ask the monks about chemistry

 

[Harleybrew32]

thats what is great about this hobby, you can brew the way you want and learn as much as you want.
if you want to learn more and get more technical by all means brew on and advance on.
this is a very good board for getting great advice and help.
its a bonus if the wifey likes your hobby too.
cheers

 

[Bobby_M]

Here’s a different way of thinking:

- I buy meat from the butcher. I didn’t raise the animals or butcher them myself. So is it “cheating” every time I have a hamburger or a hot dog or a philly cheese steak sandwich?
- I buy vegetables from the supermarket. I didn’t plant them or grow them myself. So it is “cheating” every time I eat a salad?
- I found these fantastic instant mashed potatoes that come in an envelope, are ready in 5 minutes and everybody I know who’s had them say they can’t tell them from scratch. So is it “cheating” when I eat these?

Even with brewing, none of us is self-sufficent. Who grows and malts all their own barley? Who grows all their own hops and if they did, how would they know the alpha acid to use them unless they owned a laboratory?

I don’t change my own oil. I pay somebody to cut my grass. I do make instant iced tea. And I like it. My wife makes cakes from a box mix. Just made one for our daughter’s birthday. And it was good. Used store bought canned frosting too.

Using extract is just paying someone else to do some of the work and make life easier for you. None of us has a problem with any of these other areas of life where people are all paying others to do the exact same thing.

I’m just wrapping up a 7 hour brew day to make 3 gallons of English Barleywine from grain. Had I used extract, I probably could have been done in 3 hours.

I never used the word cheating so I would appreciate if you didn't put words into my fingers. I was answering the OP's question from my own perspective.

I stopped using extract about 6 batches into it. It was just a matter of principal for me. The manufacturer makes a batch of wort from grain and then removes most of the water so they can ship it and sell it to you. Then you put the water back. It's not exactly the same but it seems a lot like instant iced tea mix. I know some people like the tea they get from that product but I'm more of a brew your own type.

Your analogy of paying people to do something for you isn't the same as my analogy. A butcher breaking an animal down and selling you a steak is like a malster malting grain that a farmer harvested. Of course we're not talking about cutting grass or changing oil here. No one is trying to claim that cutting your own grass is a purists form of lawn maintenance and that those who pay someone else to do it are posers. Paying someone to cut your grass or change oil is most analogous to buying a six pack of commercial beer.

As far as being a homebrewer is concerned, brewing with extract is a form of short cutting. That is a fact with no implication of inferiority.

Malt extract is a form of "instant wort" which correlates very closely to instant iced tea. Yes, there is a definite difference in end results between steeped tea and instant tea. I don't begrudge anyone from using any product if they like the result.

I personally like the beers I make using 100% grain. It is very rare that I have a beer that I like that I later found out was brewed with extract. Read carefully. I am not saying that good beers cannot be made with extract. I am not saying that all grain is instantly a better beer either. It's my own personal preference and observation.

 

[AzOr]

Good advice here.
You shouldn’t let cost be a barrier. BIAB is simple and the price of admission is only the bag as long as you already have a big pot.
Check CL, there’s always someone getting out of the hobby and is selling their equipment at low prices.

The cost of extracts is significantly higher than grains. Plus you have more options when it comes to recipes.

When I was extract brewing I’d always come across recipes that didn’t have an extract equivalent. That was frustrating.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I’d always come across recipes that didn’t have an extract equivalent.

OK, I'm curious (and perhaps hoping for some interesting discussion): What styles were you looking at (or brewing) where you were not finding "extract equivalent" recipes?

 

[Sebastian Weetabix]

Ask the monks about chemistry

And ask the Monkees about the Clarksville train schedule!

 

[Bobby_M]

OK, I'm curious (and perhaps hoping for some interesting discussion): What styles were you looking at (or brewing) where you were not finding "extract equivalent" recipes?

You didnt ask me but I do have a few examples.

Belgian wit (specifically an authentic Celis or Hoegarten clone)
Rauchbier
Gradzidski/Gratzer
American Light Lager
Cream Ale.

You can kind of do some of them with extract but you wouldnt fool anyone that really knew the style.

 

[hout17]

I doubt I will ever stop extract brewing. While I'm moving to do all grain I know there will be times when I want to cut my brew day down and still getting something tasty in the fermenter.

 

[AzOr]

You didnt ask me but I do have a few examples.

Belgian wit (specifically an authentic Celis or Hoegarten clone)
Rauchbier
Gradzidski/Gratzer
American Light Lager
Cream Ale.

You can kind of do some of them with extract but you wouldnt fool anyone that really knew the style.

Thank you. Beat me to it.

I just made a Gratzer. It was interesting and good but probably won't make it in my regular rotation.

I could never get my extract pilsners to turn out very good. Besides the color even. Although I made quite a few Rocky Racoons (I think that's the name) that were really good.

I don't have anything against extract brewing. In fact, Orfy's mild is a good example of a beer that turns out great either way.

I'm set up for all grain so it doesn't make sense for me to do even occasional extracts but if I were limited in space or had to brew indoors I wouldn't hesitate to make extract beers.