When did you stop extract brewing?

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Extract gets such a bad rap. I had a lot of fun with kits and building my own recipes using extract, just as I do with all grain.

I still make an amber ale and an English bitter with extract methods though. I cannot replicate the same success with all grain on those two recipes. *shrug*
 
I would like to do only all grain batches but with the wife working from home now and have two kids under 5 my time is limited through the day. With warmer weather coming I hope to be able to brew once the kids go to bed. Also considering getting a electric system at some point that's abit more automated.
 
I brewed 5.5 gallons of pilsner LME last night using Centennial, Newport and Northern Brewer. It smells good.
Once I can afford a bigger setup or have more space, I'll probably switch to BIAB.
 
Extract gets such a bad rap.

It can be interesting watching the words and phrases people use to describe their hobby: "rabbit hole", ".... never looked back", " ... the next level",

Home brewing could also be described as cooking (well known approaches to adding dry sugars or syrups to hot water, ...).

Or maybe home brewing is just a big bag of ingredients and techniques - and one gets to chose which ones help them make enjoyable beer.
 
Been brewing for 3 years extract. I don't plan on switching as I also have other hobbies and responsibilities and just don't feel like adding another step... another vessel and such. I get the pure thinking and totally respect it. It's in all hobbies. I can only compare my beers to brewery beers and over all with the better equipment I have now and temperature control, I'm quite satisfied. Friends I know who do AG tend to not brew as often or do it in clubs. I do agree the ability to create from scratch is fascinating with the control you have. The kits still come with steeping grains for color and flavor and it works quite well. You can also make your own recipes using the basic DME's and steeping grains but I'm sure avid AG brewers look at it as incomplete some way. To each his own. At the same time I also buy kegs from local breweries to keep up with the habit LOL
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I started out with extract kits, then to mini mash to BIAB to all grain.
Now i mostly brew all grain, but will throw a extract in, if i dont have time for a full brew day.
so i would say what ever works for you.
 
OK gang, Been reading and learning since 2011. About my second post to this forum.
Have brewed 261 Extract beers. Some were mini micro mash, 90% were extract. Most of my recipes are based on Mr Beer HME as a base with added DME/LME, Steep grains and hops. About 10% are DIY recipes and 5g recipes from all the noted on line LBHS. I split the 5g batches into 2- 2.5 LBK, different yeast added to each and then tinker with dry hopping. In 9 years I had 2 yes two really bad infected brews - one blew up the old tap-a-draft keg the other was in bottles which was so bad after 2 months I dumped it.

I have made some fair, OK and many really great beers.. I will never go AG. period. what others have said.
I make beer I really like and drink it all. I have no one else in family or around me that drinks much beer except the BMC crowd, their loss
I brew all the above - ales lagers wheat dark all ..
I have 5 LBK 3 going most of the time. 3 fridges with temp controllers. One for lagers two for ales and conditioning.
Bottle most. Have 2 Brewbox 2.5g that are second gen and working great. My beerboxes are modified with pressure gauges I can vent to keep pressure in spec. I also have 2 -1 gal growlers -I do keg conditioning like in the beerbox

I have a large coffee pot 2gal I use for the micro mashes - my 'coffee pot masher" works great. I take refactor reading and iodine tests to proof the mash. Most mashes have been 2.5# max for a 2.5 g batch.. added to LME/DME/MRB.. Mashing is way too much time and work for me. But I do it for the experience - why I will never go AG.. plus the cost of doing 5g batches I would have to make major investments in equipment
I have my brewing process dialed in.
I could go into more specifics --
I can say my beer hobby for the past 9 years has been an enjoyable experience
 
One step at a time my friend

Start with BIAB and go from there
I made the switch from Extract to All Grain because I had the money to do so
So..... YMMV
 
I am nearly seventy years old, hence my reaction to the “old fool” remark. Back in the day, hauling sacks of corn up to a secret place to make “homebrew” had an entirely different meaning.
It was hard work and there was always the danger of law enforcement interrupting an otherwise enjoyable weekend.
My point is that no one should look down their nose at any one else simply for the way they brew.
We are ALL brewers. Whether it’s extract, biab, all grain or leave the grain in a basket outside overnight DOES NOT MATTER.
If it matters so much to anyone, then it’s that persons problem, not mine.

And no, my family NEVER used a radiator out of a junk yard!
 
one more thing i will add, temp control for fermentations and proper yeast pitching is what I wish i invested in before investing in all grain equipment. temp control improved my beer a lot. there's a lot of of extract brewers that can make really great beers. so dont get hung up on the I have to do all grain;)
cheers
 
ops my error looks like I posted 17 times to the forum since 2012. Now 18
BTY I am tapping on 79 years old.. use to make wine in the 80s that was fun but I really like my beer brewing. Have not made corn spirits.. and I am in TN :)
Read all the assorted books by the many experts and many brewing forums ..I almost never post .
Invested in the gear needed to brew the small 2.5g batch
The use of a super sanitizing process and temp control insures most recipes come out great.
I only use the one-step or sani solutions for one session. Costs a bit more.

I use only dry yeast. Have tried yeast re-use, yes it worked but too much effort, prefer to try new yeasts with each batch.
I have never made the exact same recipe. I always try something different -- added steep grain, hops and yeast. I keep a verbose log of each brew Qbrew is my goto recipe program with a DIY modified database.

Batch prime with a dedicated LBK to bottles or 'keg' .
I did start a blog about my experience but left it un finished - many others out there.

Have a smoked micro mash in the bottle on Fri now the long wait to let it age- 3 to 4 weeks.
Next up an IPA based on MRB Long Play IPA
 
I stopped using extract about 6 batches into it. It was just a matter of principal for me. The manufacturer makes a batch of wort from grain and then removes most of the water so they can ship it and sell it to you. Then you put the water back. It's not exactly the same but it seems a lot like instant iced tea mix. I know some people like the tea they get from that product but I'm more of a brew your own type.
 
I started brewing in 2006. My uncle and mother both created the monster my hobby is today. I started with extract, and after the wife complained enough about all my brew equipment in the kitchen, I decided to brew in the garage. I had joined a brew club in 2006 as well, and I'd seen a couple gravity systems in the club. I built my three tier, gravity system based on those ideas towards the end of 2009. I also started growing five varieties of hops in 2009. My first brew was called Maiden Voyage IPA in January, 2010; first brew on the new system, first all grain brew, and, all of my first year hops. (Which was about 10 ounces for all five plants.)

I still use the same system, though it's been upgraded and modified since.

Brewery 2.0 is in the works. The monster continues to grow.
 
I stopped using extract about 6 batches into it. It was just a matter of principal for me. The manufacturer makes a batch of wort from grain and then removes most of the water so they can ship it and sell it to you. Then you put the water back. It's not exactly the same but it seems a lot like instant iced tea mix. I know some people like the tea they get from that product but I'm more of a brew your own type.

If only water is removed and then added back... I would be interested in what changes occur and what difference the wort from DME and the wort from a mash would be. After that you boil the crap out of it. I do extract mainly because if it got any more complicated as far as more equipment and time, I would probably stop. So I brew, I drink, I do other things. If this was my only hobby I probably would do all grain.
 
After that you boil the crap out of it.

Many people who actively brew with DME/LME limit boil intensity (simmer, not hard boil; link with pictures available upon request) boil times (30 min, 15 min, 1 min) or use a "no boil (but pasteurize)" approach. (links available upon request).

The idea of a 15 Minute Pale Ale goes back to at least 2010 - there is a thread here at Homebrew Talk (link available upon request).

The original Tinseth model for estimating IBUs, based on whole hops, results in very low utilization for shorter boils. There is at least one recent study that suggests that this is not true. (Link available upon request).
 
I brew like it's all grain. Bought kits from various companies and all of the instructions are 1 hr boil. Keg Connection (HomeBrewSupply) I think has the best kits. They are put together per order and very generous with supplies.
 
I'm still new to this Homebrewing thing. Starter kit came with LME and so I purchased more because that's what I learned with. So now I have a small inventory of LME.

In order to switch to BIAB/all grain/partial grain, I'd have to upgrade to more than just a kettle on my kitchen stove.

I currently don't have a ton of space, no garage, not a great basement, yadda yadda...
I was in the process of buying a house with a dope garage used for motorcycle restoration. That's on hold now.
Thanks, Corona!

Anyhow... When should I begin to upgrade? How long am I able to brew with LME (and maybe steeping grains) before I'm an old loser?

Thanks.

First, there’s nothing “wrong” with extract brewing and it doesn’t make anybody a “loser”. Each person has unique circumstances and the object is to make beer as best we can. Not all homebrewers do all grain. You can make great beers with extract and many do. Yes, there are some brewing snobs who look down on extract brewing, but they are usually misinformed and there’s no reason to.

Extract comes in a can in liquid form, but its more like a thick syrup. It also comes in a bag in dry or powder form. I find the dry form easier to measure and work with, especially when using partial packages. Once you open a can, its a sticky mess and I find I pretty much have to use the whole can. Much easier to save half a bag of powder, etc.

Extracts come in extra-light, light, amber, dark, pilsen, and wheat. So you still have lots of creative control and you can go even further by supplementing with specialty grains you steep in a small bag, sort of like making tea. Your homebrew shop can grind these for you so you don’t need a mill or a mash tun.

The advantages of extract brewing are time and convenience. Someone has already done the “work” for you of seperating the sugars from the grain and giving them to you. All you have to do is heat water, mix it in, and go. As you said, less equipment is also needed. Every once in a while I will do an extract brew and think what a joy it is compared to an all-day all-grain brew. I especially like to use all extract to make wheat beer, as it is MUCH easier than mashing wheat. The disadvantages of extract are cost and control. One pound of extract contains the sugars of several pounds of grains. Plus the work factor. So a pound of extract costs more. Plus you don’t have exact control of what grains were used to make the extract. This is not usually a big deal. Think a pound of extract costs more, but your time is worth something too.

The advantages of all grain brewing include complete control - including starting gravity, base malts used, exact percentages of specialty grains, final color, etc. And pound for pound, grain costs less than extract, especially when purchased in 55 lb sacks. The disadvantages of all grain include equipment required and a longer brew day. Some extract brewers can get away with using a smaller pot. When you go all grain, you need a large pot that can hold your full batch volume plus, as you start with more wort and concentrate it some through evaporation. You also need to grind grain and a way to steep or mash it. In olden times we had to make a mash tun, usually out of some kind of cooler with a false bottom that acts as a strainer. Today many people do brew in a bag and you can get away without having a dedicated mash tun. Long as your brewpot is big enough, you pretty much just have to buy a bag. And come up with a way to be able to lift and drain said bag. Each of these methods has advantages and disadvantages I won’t go into.

A brew bag or mash tun also has a finite capacity so I will also use extract to bring a beer up in gravity when I want to make a barleywine or imperial stout. Since my mash tun won’t hold 17 lbs of grain to make 3 gallons of beer. : )

There are also now electric kettle systems you can buy that operate as all in one systems. Some people with small space requirements use these. Robobrew, GrainFather, Anvil Foundry, etc.

The bottom line is there is no “wrong” way to make beer. Do what works for you. You are the one who has to drink it.

If the desire is to go all grain, I’d advise buying the equipment gradually as you can afford it. Start with a large, quality SS brewpot that is larger than the batch you intend to make. I primarily brew 3 gallons at a time so I have a 5 gallon brewpot. For 5 gallon batches, I’d recommend an 8 gallon pot. And a good, long SS brew spoon. Next your second purchase if you don’t already have one should be a wort chiller, as it is one of the pieces of equipment that will give you the most impact the fastest.

Then an 8 gallon pot will be hard to work with on your stovetop (another reason I have chosen to do 3 gallons) so you might want to consider an outdoor cooker or burner. Now you’re banishing yourself to the garage or driveway.

Far as all grain, you can build a mash tun out of a cooler, many plans can be found online. Stainless false bottoms for the round Gott coolers don’t cost that much. Then you need a ball valve for the cooler. They sell kits or you can get one at Home Depot. Or you can go the bag and pulley method. Many here recommend Willser bags. Somebody please correct me if I don’t have that name exactly right.

Then you want a malt mill.

Or if you get an all in one system - you just pay for it and get everything at once except the grain mill. Thats why these have become attractive in recent years.
 
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I moved from extract after my 3rd brew. I did it to avoid pales being too dark and a little off the mark. This issues I had were more about being a noob. My first AG BIAB was a success, I was happy with the flavor and color, and mostly I do AG now.
With that said, I’ve learned about how to do extract with steeping grains brews properly, and when I need some beer for an event or party and I’m a little short on time I’ll do an extract brew. The last one I brewed placed 2nd in a fairly sizable competition. Confirming it was good and not just drinkable.
So here’s the information that improved my extract brews: Use distilled water, the correct mineral content is already in the extract. Y
 
The bottom line is there is no “wrong” way to make beer. Do what works for you. You are the one who has to drink it.
I almost spit a little coffee out when I read this,,, the second time. LOL. "has to drink it", like it's a bad thing,,, I mean "please, don't,, don't make me drink,, ah, ah,," BEER" ! Nooooo!:bott:
I hope every one is staying safe and healthy.

Joel B.
 
Every one of us has made that batch we couldn’t drink and wouldn’t wish on our enemies. 😄 Its a sad occasion when we have to pour one out. But hey, it happens.
 
Extracts come in extra-light, light, amber, dark, pilsen, and wheat.

Briess makes additional styles of DME & LME; I've used the additional DME styles with good results. Williams Brewing Supply offers a number of additional styles of extract as well (currently, no personal experiences with their products).

the correct mineral content is already in the extract.
People have been adding small amounts of gypsum or calcium chloride to extract beers to enhance the flavor for decades (book reference to recipes from the 1990s available upon request). I've been doing it occasionally for a number of years - small amounts of brewing salts will make a good extract+steep beer taste better. And a small amount of a single salt goes a long ways. Based on personal experience, anticipate that mineral content of the specific brand/style of extract can vary from other brands/styles (additional references available upon request).
 
I just ordered 36 lb of Briess gold LME because Northern Brewer is back to free shipping over $60.
And it saves $35 by ordering 6 x 6 lb rather than order 2 or 3 at a time.
Gold is "pale malt with a little CaraPils" so that sounds good for general ale brewing. I've only used wheat and Pilsen so far.
 
I had a quick boil over on my second Brew because I was trying to stir in some hops...I couldn't have stopped it if I tried. After doing some research, I found that LME isn't needed to be in a 60 minute boil. So I boil my bittering hops for 60, adding my malt and flavoring hops at 15, then more hops at flameout.
It's supposed to keep my SRM closer to where it should be and not even close to boiling over.

You all have opened my eyes.
Thanks! I am not a loser, Dad!
 
I had a quick boil over on my second Brew because I was trying to stir in some hops...I couldn't have stopped it if I tried. After doing some research, I found that LME isn't needed to be in a 60 minute boil. So I boil my bittering hops for 60, adding my malt and flavoring hops at 15, then more hops at flameout.
It's supposed to keep my SRM closer to where it should be and not even close to boiling over.

That's why I use a 10 gallon boil kettle.
 
I did extract for about a year. It was great experience to get the basics down. Switched to all grain, and my beer has been infinitely better. It's a forever learning hobby, which I find both interesting and rewarding. I went with a propane burner and BIAB. I would highly recommend going all electric. That would be my only regret. I love the way I do it now, but there are some really nice all in one devices that will work great for small spaces. Clawhammer supply, Grainfather and Spike is coming out with one soon.

I find switching to all grain adds complexity to beer that just isn't possible with LME/DME. I know people have won awards with extract beer. I get it. I'm not here to step on anyone's toes or start a ME vs AG argument, but for me personally, my beer improved immensely after making the switch.
 
Briess makes additional styles of DME & LME; I've used the additional DME styles with good results. Williams Brewing Supply offers a number of additional styles of extract as well (currently, no personal experiences with their products).


People have been adding small amounts of gypsum or calcium chloride to extract beers to enhance the flavor for decades (book reference to recipes from the 1990s available upon request). I've been doing it occasionally for a number of years - small amounts of brewing salts will make a good extract+steep beer taste better. And a small amount of a single salt goes a long ways. Based on personal experience, anticipate that mineral content of the specific brand/style of extract can vary from other brands/styles (additional references available upon request).
Yes of course one can add more to further influence the desired outcome, but one would do better first knowing what their water profile is to begin with. The point being, with extract mixed in distilled water there is no guessing and the finished beer is for the most part as it should be.
 
I'm still new to this Homebrewing thing. Starter kit came with LME and so I purchased more because that's what I learned with. So now I have a small inventory of LME.

In order to switch to BIAB/all grain/partial grain, I'd have to upgrade to more than just a kettle on my kitchen stove.

I currently don't have a ton of space, no garage, not a great basement, yadda yadda...
I was in the process of buying a house with a dope garage used for motorcycle restoration. That's on hold now.
Thanks, Corona!

Anyhow... When should I begin to upgrade? How long am I able to brew with LME (and maybe steeping grains) before I'm an old loser?

Thanks.
I got tired of extract brewing back in 1993 after a year. It just seemed too easy, like making cakes from a box. What fun is a hobby if you can't make it super complicated?
 
Started this hobby around 1992, extract and steeping grains. For better or worse, worked my way through most of Papazians recipes. After two years gave AG a shot. I went out and bought a plastic Phils Lauter Tun and proceeded to make five in a row of the most astringent beers imaginable. Gave up on AG, went back to steeping and extract for the next ten years. Which was OK as by then I pretty much wanted to drink only hoppy APAs which was quite doable. Then the AG bug hit again. Picked up a 10 gal cooler and a bazooka screen, still using them 15 years later. It was all AG for about the next ten years. But as to when I stopped extract brewing the answer is never. I'm open to many different methods and use them. I have around 200 lbs of grain in my garage, I also have 60lbs of DME (I find it so much easier to use than LME). While the great majority of my beers over the last three years have been AG lately I've found that Partial Mash is working for me. The last 10 brews were 1 AG, 1 Extract, and 8 PM. The AG was terrific as were most of the PM. The 15 minute extract was fine and a quick plug into my dwindling pipeline. It's all good.
 
I stopped using extract about 6 batches into it. It was just a matter of principal for me. The manufacturer makes a batch of wort from grain and then removes most of the water so they can ship it and sell it to you. Then you put the water back. It's not exactly the same but it seems a lot like instant iced tea mix. I know some people like the tea they get from that product but I'm more of a brew your own type.

Here’s a different way of thinking:

- I buy meat from the butcher. I didn’t raise the animals or butcher them myself. So is it “cheating” every time I have a hamburger or a hot dog or a philly cheese steak sandwich?
- I buy vegetables from the supermarket. I didn’t plant them or grow them myself. So it is “cheating” every time I eat a salad?
- I found these fantastic instant mashed potatoes that come in an envelope, are ready in 5 minutes and everybody I know who’s had them say they can’t tell them from scratch. So is it “cheating” when I eat these?

Even with brewing, none of us is self-sufficent. Who grows and malts all their own barley? Who grows all their own hops and if they did, how would they know the alpha acid to use them unless they owned a laboratory?

I don’t change my own oil. I pay somebody to cut my grass. I do make instant iced tea. And I like it. My wife makes cakes from a box mix. Just made one for our daughter’s birthday. And it was good. Used store bought canned frosting too.

Using extract is just paying someone else to do some of the work and make life easier for you. None of us has a problem with any of these other areas of life where people are all paying others to do the exact same thing.

I’m just wrapping up a 7 hour brew day to make 3 gallons of English Barleywine from grain. Had I used extract, I probably could have been done in 3 hours.
 
ok one more thing, after i brewed a few batches, I thought man All Grain must be really hard but the beer must be way better then the stuff i was making. also after seeing some of the recipes i was like whoa thats alot of stuff and time.
then i got a recipe for a BIAB from a friend, i followed his instructions and man that beer was awesome compared to my other beers. so i thought I had to ditch the extract and start moving up to all grain.
so after i got doing all grain i realized it was my process that needed the tweaking not giving up on extract.
so now i brew all grain mostly because its relaxing to me and i enjoy it. but i will still throw down a tin can kit if i need a quick beer or some DME/LME kits too.
sorry i get rambling sometimes and forget my point.
cheers
 
So what would you say was the change to your method that made the biggest difference? Is it that brewing AG have you a better understanding of what you were doing?
Like the analogy of baking or hamburgers... If it's apre-made thing in abox, you can easily cook or bake it and it can come out well, but if you understand baking from scratch or how a burger patty is made, it would probably elevate your ability to make it better?

I've never butchered a cow, but understanding the Maillard reaction, fat content, the type of meat in the patty, my own cooking applications will mean the Bubba burgers will come out better than if I just threw them in a frying pan on mefium-high then flipped.

Or at least I would think.
 
So what would you say was the change to your method that made the biggest difference? Is it that brewing AG have you a better understanding of what you were doing?
Like the analogy of baking or hamburgers... If it's apre-made thing in abox, you can easily cook or bake it and it can come out well, but if you understand baking from scratch or how a burger patty is made, it would probably elevate your ability to make it better?

I've never butchered a cow, but understanding the Maillard reaction, fat content, the type of meat in the patty, my own cooking applications will mean the Bubba burgers will come out better than if I just threw them in a frying pan on mefium-high then flipped.

Or at least I would think.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with knowledge, understanding and learning. Anybody can go as far down the rabbit hole as they like. : ) More understanding is only going to help you.

I’m just making the point that for the majority of us this is a hobby. As much as we want to compare ourselves to professional brewers - we’re not. I’ve been brewing off and on for almost 30 years. I brew all grain. Occasionally I brew extract. I used to own a homebrew shop and teach brewing classes. And with everything I know I’m never going to be a professional brewer for a working brewery. Not gonna happen.

When one does something for a living it becomes a whole nother matter than when its a hobby for fun. Reminds me of when I used to bowl and how that hobby was completely ruined for me by all the guys who wanted to be pro bowlers and took it WAY too seriously. Everybody averages 210 or more and they hand out a dozen 300 rings now every season. I haven’t bowled now for about 10 years and I don’t miss it.

Agreed, no professional brewers are using extract just like Ace of Cakes is not using a box mix. Absolutely.

But when its a hobby and we’re doing it for ourselves for fun or for our own recreation and to make something for ourselves that we enjoy then we don’t need to be super knowlegable and understand every aspect as deeply as the professionals do. Water chemistry alone is about a bachelor degree course.

If something makes your day easier, quicker, or less stressful and you can still get satisfactory results then there’s nothing wrong with that. If you want to persue it further and learn more and go way deeper then there’s nothing wrong with that either. This hobby can be as complex as you want to go or as simple as you want to make it.

Use extract, don’t use extract - its your choice. But nobody should call anybody else names or look down on anybody else because they choose to brew one method or another. That’s what I was responding to in the original post. : )
 
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