When a great beer doesn't place in a competition....

[Shooter]

...or you could wait to get your scoresheets back. How is anyone here supposed to know why your beer didn't medal? Are you operating under an assumption we all possess mental superpowers far beyond those of your average human? Because, I just need to set you straight on that and let you know that is not the case for at least 51% of the people on this border, possibly more, but I am estimating.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I personally don't brew for competitions at all. I brew beers that I want to drink, and then if a competition is coming around that I feel like entering, I will enter one of those beers in an appropriate category.

Me too. And then you have to add in the "was I too lazy to bottle?" and "is the dropoff point really near my house?" questions to see if I'll bother competing.

Hell, the Maltose Falcons just had their Doug King event, and with their convoluted style guidelines I have a session red that *finally* fits a category (since it doesn't fit right in American Amber Ale for BJCP). But hell, I'm not driving all the way up to Culver City to drop off my entry!

 

[weirdboy]

Me too. And then you have to add in the "was I too lazy to bottle?" and "is the dropoff point really near my house?" questions to see if I'll bother competing.

Hell, the Maltose Falcons just had their Doug King event, and with their convoluted style guidelines I have a session red that *finally* fits a category (since it doesn't fit right in American Amber Ale for BJCP). But hell, I'm not driving all the way up to Culver City to drop off my entry!

Correction: the competition is actually tomorrow (I'm judging). I agree about driving to Culver City. It's fine if you live in the area, and a traffic nightmare otherwise.

 

[bierhaus15]

That said, I have judged English styles in competition and if you think fruity, bitter, oxidized, overly caramelly beer should score well then I'm sorry you don't have a better pool of judges in your area.

I was being sarcastic about that 'how to brew' comment; obviously there are homebrewers making quality English style beer and being rewarded for it. After all, well-made beer wins competitions, regardless of how accurate it is to the real stuff.

Although, I wouldn't mind that "better pool of judges in my area."

 

[Pilgarlic]

Interesting that you thought I was attacking you. I'm genuinely sorry you took it that way. It really wasn't my intent.

So it seems to me that some people here think I'm crying and whining because I wasn't voted prettiest girl at the party and that I feel the judges personally victimized me at the competition. That's just ridiculous. If you reread the title of the thread and the first sentence, it was really intended to be more of a semantic debate.

Obviously if my beer didn't win, it wasn't the "best." I have no illusions of grandeur that I'm going to be the next Jamil or whatever.

But it was f*&%ing delicious.

So thus the debate, can a beer truly be "great" if it doesn't medal? Or are competitions just petty dick waggling contests?


Especially the post below. No need to be such an ass, you're turning my simple question into a personal attack. Take a deep breath.

 

[Phunhog]

Yes, a beer can be great and not medal. It happens all the time. It doesn't even have to be a style issue, either. I have had a beer score a 40 in competition and not even get an honorable mention, because there were 4-5 other beers in the same category that were also great.

Exactly!! I think what matters more than "winning" is your score. Would you rather medal with a 33 pt beer or receive a 40+ point score and not medal? I have struck out with beers that have gotten in the high 30's and meads in the low 40's. The point is that you don't know what your competition is!!

 

[AnOldUR]

Exactly!! I think what matters more than "winning" is your score. Would you rather medal with a 33 pt beer or receive a 40+ point score and not medal? I have struck out with beers that have gotten in the high 30's and meads in the low 40's. The point is that you don't know what your competition is!!

I don't agree with this. First of all, it's a competition. As much as the PC group would like to make you think we're all winners, it just ain't so.

But more important is that the actual number is somewhat subjective and can vary from judge to judge. Some judges are free with their scores in the 40's. Others reserve them so there's a place to go if something better comes along that wow's them even more. Either way, it doesn't matter, as long as the judging is consistent. You're being judged equally against the other beer in your flight. From table to table, competition to competition, region to region you will see differences in scoring style. This is why when there are several tables for a category that advance to a mini-BOS the scores don't follow to the new table. It becomes a clean slate with the new round of judging. The actual number from that first round doesn't mean a thing, just that the beer was scored better than its peers and is good enough to advance.

Personally, I am pleased with any score of 30 and up. It lets me know that I made a really good beer. Only that on that day, someone else was better. Beyond that, the number is only the dick waggling contests mentioned earlier and doesn't mean too much.

Within a mini-BOS round, the judges choose the top entries as directed by the competition director (typically, this means choosing the first, second, and third place winners). The mini-BOS judges are told the entry number and style, but not prior scores. Some competitions choose to re-label the bottles to disguise the identity of the entry so that judges will have a harder time using knowledge from the initial round of judging. This can be logistically difficult to manage, but may help ensure blind judging.

 

[Phunhog]

I don't agree with this. First of all, it's a competition. As much as the PC group would like to make you think we're all winners, it just ain't so.

But more important is that the actual number is somewhat subjective and can vary from judge to judge. Some judges are free with their scores in the 40's. Others reserve them so there's a place to go if something better comes along that wow's them even more. Either way, it doesn't matter, as long as the judging is consistent. You're being judged equally against the other beer in your flight. From table to table, competition to competition, region to region you will see differences in scoring style. This is why when there are several tables for a category that advance to a mini-BOS the scores don't follow to the new table. It becomes a clean slate with the new round of judging. The actual number from that first round doesn't mean a thing, just that the beer was scored better than its peers and is good enough to advance.

Personally, I am pleased with any score of 30 and up. It lets me know that I made a really good beer. Only that on that day, someone else was better. Beyond that, the number is only the dick waggling contests mentioned earlier and doesn't mean too much.

Well the whole judging process is subjective and open to many, many variables. You are right it is a competition but just because you don't win doesn't mean your beer sucks. In fact it can be an excellent beer.

 

[sudbuster]

Well the whole judging process is subjective and open to many, many variables. You are right it is a competition but just because you don't win doesn't mean your beer sucks. In fact it can be an excellent beer.

That's very true. Also competions are all about having fun. Having known the above about the subjectivity of contests, I always enter the same beer in at least three comps. That way three judges give me feedback as to how it stacked up stylewise. The judges are human beer loving folks who are doing thier very best, and doing it for nothing.
Competions are also becoming more stringent because we have better judges and also better brewers....

 

[pdxal]

Great beers can and do tank in competitions. They can be entered in the wrong category, they can fail to fit style guidelines, and they can come up against great competition.
Regardless, you should get some good feedback on your beer, and be able to understand why it didn't do well from the judging sheets.
Judging certainly is subjective, so entering multiple competitions with the same beer may be one way to get a better idea of how good your beer really is (N=9 to 12 is always better than N=3).

 

[jwalk4]

Is it actually a great beer?

I have a batch of English Old Ale that I thought was by far my best beer to date. It was just phenomenal to my taste, and if I could have bought it in a bar I would have blown an entire paycheck on it. Roommates and friends thought the same.

Entered into a competition and didn't even place. Haven't seen scoresheets yet so I don't know what the specifics were, but it's making me second guess if this one is worth re-brewing for the NHC.

It was on the same table as barleywines, so part of me wonders if a 7.5% ABV Old Ale (no matter how delicious, or true to style it actually is) just seemed bland compared to 12% ABV barleywines.

I'm sure this, or something like this, has been said already, but here it goes anyways. IMO, beer competitions are a lot like dog shows. You may have a great dog; he/she is smart, obedient, and knows how to do a trick or two. However, when a judge eyes up your pooch, he /she may not think your dog stands out as an exceptional in its breed. It doesn't mean that your dog is a bad dog, it just means that Fido isn't what the judge thought of as the best example of a beagle, or spaniel, or whatever.

I'm sure your beer was damn tasty, just reading your post made me miss being in England. I hope you get good tasting notes though.

 

[mooshimanx]

Its kind of idle speculation without the scoresheets to understand why the scores are whatever they are (and it sounds like we don't even know what the scores were!). This is part of why it must be hard to enter competition brewing if you're competitive and why I just can't do it.