Wheat Whisky Winter Warmer

[Zamial]

I have been thinking about this pretty hard and I think I am going to brew this up. I am looking for any feedback/ideas/thoughts on this. I have not seen or found anything like it yet.

Background: I have recently purchased a bottle of Death's Door White Whisky. This stuff is clear and is made from mostly wheat 80/20 so it has a VERY strong wheat flavor and aroma. This lead me to think about some of it aged in some oak chips and then added to an imperial wheat...to make it as the title suggests.

WWWW

6 gallons
OG: 1.099
Yeast: Wyeast-Weihenstephan Weizen 3068
6 gallon batch
smack pack: NO STARTER

13# white wheat
8# 6-row
1# honey
1# belgian syrup, clear

1 oz warrior 90 min.

Ferment until primary is over (A weekish) and then rack to oak infused Whisky.

Secondary onto 1/2 pound of lightly toasted american oak. boiled for 10 minutes, drained and then soaked for 2 weeks in 2 cups of DDWW. Add it all chips and whisky.

No starter because this will increase the banana esters and the whisky + oak will add oaked wheat/clove flavors and aromas.

I imagine this would taste like spring warming in your belly...

 

[TyTanium]

YUM.

I'd steam the oak instead of boiling. Actually, soaking in whisky for 2 weeks should take care of sanitation.

I get the rationale for no starter, but that's a pretty high gravity brew - any worries about not finishing low enough?

 

[Zamial]

YUM.

I'd steam the oak instead of boiling. Actually, soaking in whisky for 2 weeks should take care of sanitation.

I get the rationale for no starter, but that's a pretty high gravity brew - any worries about not finishing low enough?

Hey Thanks! The only reason I wanted to boil the chips is to reduce the tannis, sanitation is secondary and I agree the chips would be sanitized by the whisky. The other thing to note is the whisky is aged in UN-charred oak barrels so it already has some oak flavor in it...I am hoping to get a nice balance with the oak and not "over powering oak".

As for finishing I have never had an ALE not get to sub 1.020 other than a failed barley wine and an extract brew...So I am pretty fearless. The other side is the yeast strain only goes to 10% ABV and if it is as it states there should be no issues.

 

[dougdecinces]

FWIW, I made a barleywine with Golden Promise and a half pound of honey malt. Together they made it taste almost like scotch (distilleries use Golden Promise as the base to their scotches). I see you have some honey there, which may be similar, but if you're willing to pony up a few extra dollars, you might want to get Golden Promise instead of 6-row.

Also +1 for the starter. It's one thing to underpitch, but you are drastically underpitching.

 

[Zamial]

FWIW, I made a barleywine with Golden Promise and a half pound of honey malt. Together they made it taste almost like scotch (distilleries use Golden Promise as the base to their scotches). I see you have some honey there, which may be similar, but if you're willing to pony up a few extra dollars, you might want to get Golden Promise instead of 6-row.

Also +1 for the starter. It's one thing to underpitch, but you are drastically underpitching.

Thanks Dougdecinces. I would use the GP but white wheat and 6-row are on sale at my LHBS. Also the 6-row is commonly used with wheat to help with sparging. I will keep in mind the GP + honey malt scotch thing. I am a huge fan of both.

I thought I would add in real honey as it tends to lighten the body/mouth feel. The candi syrup is for??? IDK it sounds good...lol.

As for under pitching/no starter... Normally I would be right there with you screaming at me to make a starter. This particular yeast strain is known for it's balanced banana and clove esters. Underpitching is a recommended way to increase the banana esters and decrease the clove per Wyeast. I can not stand clove in high concentration, to me less is more...I figure I will get all the extra wheat grain flavors and clove from the whisky.

 

[Zamial]

I just fired up the stir plate with the yeast. This morning I added about 2 oz. of LD Carlson's oak chips and filled up the E-flask to the 500ml line with the whisky. They were a door prize from a homebrew comp .

So, it looks like I should be able to brew this tomorrow! :rockin:

 

[TyTanium]

YES!!!! Can't wait to hear how this turns out.

What temp for primary fermentation?

 

[Zamial]

I do closed pressurized fermentation at room temp which in this room is about 65F. This will mimic the low side of the fermentation with the pressure. I recently did a different wheat (the judge is still out on that one.) at room temps and it did not have much for clove phenols in it.

I will also be adding this yeast strain to the bank and will be using it for most of my wheat beers going forward. I used this last time to see how I liked it. I filtered it with a 5 micron filter and it was still cloudy and opaque! I also did not have the issue of needing the recommended 1/3 head space, the pressure countered it very nicely.

I am going to let the wood age in the E-flask until primary is over, warming it in my hands every so often. I will freeze it once to simulate a "storage cycle" and extract extra goodness. I will allow it to warm back to room temps, filter out the wood out with a nylon paint strainer bag, on it's way to the receiving keg right before I purge the keg with CO2. This means I will be adding 400ml-ish of extreme oaked wheat whisky to the keg.

 

[TyTanium]

Awesome. Love it.

 

[Zamial]

Bad news - I have some brewery and home maintenance that I needed to get done today so I will not brew it today. Good news - is I WILL be brewing this tomorrow for sure!

I may have been able to squeeze in a brew day today but IMO forcing a brew day is never good. I can have everything completely prepped and have a flawless brew day for tomorrow.

The DD whisky has turned to a standard whiskey/scotch "caramel" color now. I REALLY want to drink some...lol. Don't worry I wont.

Since I could not work on this stuff while the wife was sleeping, I made a label! FYI I use 4x2 address labels.

I think it turned out great.

 

[motobrewer]

if you ferment 3086 below 64 you won't get banana no matter what your pitch rate is.

i've used it twice in a dunkelweizen, Jamil's recipe. He mentions that you should ferment at 64 to get a good balance, so I did. both times they were all clove an no banana at all.

 

[Mk010101]

excellent! Never tried a wheat beer that had an OG above 1.055, so I will be following this with interest. Thanks for keeping us updated.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I think you will get off flavors trying to ferment a 6 gallon, high OG beer with 3068 without a starter. It's a powerful yeast but it can easily go wrong in the flavor department when it gets stressed.

I make a dunkelweizen-based wheat wine with 3068. It took a while (several months) to mellow and merge into a really nice flavor but now it is excellent. I did not thin it out with adjuncts, that may accelerate how quickly it mellows. I also added hops to 45 IBUs to get some BU balance so I'm sure that also took some time to mellow out.

I also used oak chips. You will definitely want to boil or steam them for a while to get some of that woody flavor out of it. When I first tried my wheat wine it had a big wood flavor. After about nine months it's down to a nice subtle oak flavor. I think that woody flavor issue is just something that comes with using chips.

I would use table sugar over clear syrup. You're not going to get any different flavor out of clear syrup, it's just going to cost more.

 

[Zamial]

Lunch break and getting stuff done! Thanks for the replies.

I am going to have a starter. I made 1600ml on a Stirplate. I plan to crash it, then harvest 10 15ml vials for the bank, decant and pitch the rest as Mr.Malty is telling me I need 1.45L

I realize at 1st I was going to just use a smack pack but that is over, I just couldn't do it/want to risk it...lol and I wanted to bank this strain. I will also use my new pure O2 system on the wort for a minute before I pitch the yeast.

As for the oak, I am freezeing and heating the flask already. I did not do anything to them but put them into the whisky. I will only be using the liquid not the chips it will just work out easier for me this way.

The real oddity is the Whisky. If you missed it, it is made from 80% wheat and is comparable to a wheat moonshine or "white dog". There is no clove or banana that I get from sipping it but it is like exhaling a wheat field, very grainy.

 

[Zamial]

Off to the LHBS for a few supplies that I thought I had but am out of, then I brew this!

:rockin:

 

[Zamial]

$#&* LHBS has most of what I needed...

Anyway...I did have enough for this beer so brew day is under way. I am collecting, ever so slowly, the 1st runnings and they are light yellow/white. If I can keep the color as close to this as possible, this thing is going to be crazy!

EDIT: This late into the boil I can tell it will be an amber. This may be in part to my boiling the entire time or to the fact that I failed badly at hitting mash out temps (at least to the low side...) Hops are in and it smells FANTASTIC! I did reduce the hops to 3/4 oz as I think I am going to pull tannins from the oak. I hope this is going to blend as well in practical application as it does in my head...and yes, I have been drinking homebrew all day...@#!^ Chocolate stout is crazy good...back to brewing!

 

[Zamial]

Yeast harvested, banked and pitched. Everything looks good. New O2 system is sexy and appears to be functioning as advertised. OG is a bit on the high side, 1.100 but do I really trust a hydrometer on a beer this big? All I know is this yeast is on a one way trip to make me beer until it can't, at which point I will be adding more booze...:rockin:

I did use yeast nutrient and energizer in the boil.

 

[TyTanium]

Yeeeeeeehaw! Way to go. Further bulletins as events warrant, please. This is on my "watch closely and if it turns out must brew in the future" list.

 

[Zamial]

Positive fermenter pressure to 15-20 psi. I will assume the starter and O2 worked. I will try to maintain a sub 20psi until this time tomorrow when I will start to crank it to 50ish psi.

Freezing and thawing cycles are going well on the oak and whisky. FWIW I have no idea if this actually does anything but I have read that a whiskey maker leaves the whiskey inside the barrels for 6-8 years. During this time the barrel is stored in the warehouse attic. They claim the freezing winters and warm summers give the whiskey its smooth characteristics. I have very few floating chips left. The color is a nice amber.

Well, I am off to the bar where they have a freshly tapped keg of Bell's 2 Hearted and some other tasty beers. I will update when something changes.

 

[Zamial]

Whisky is a dark amber and has no floating chips anymore.

SG is at 1.048 tastes and smells ok but is still REALLY sweet. I will let the yeast work and take a sample again in a few days I am also going to ramp the pressure down to about 5 psi slowly over the next few days as well to see if that helps them out as well.

 

[Zamial]

SG seems to be at 1.034 now. It is still a bit to sweet for me but not like drinking honey anymore. I will now crank the psi down again to 1-2 + crank the heat for the next 24 hours to about 72F and check it again in a few more days. The yeast are closing in on doomsday as I am just under 9% ABV now. They may be all the way done already, only time will tell.

If the SG and/or flavor do not change I am thinking about pitching a huge starter of WLP 099 to dry it out some more but that will be a "last resort". I would be happy with a FG of 1.026 but the lower the better IMO.

I am not really getting much for yeast flavors at this point, no clove or banana more like what I would call American Wheat flavors but this will probably change. The near flat beer is a cloudy light amber.

The Whisky and oak freeze/thaw cycles have been days at a time now and it is dark amber. I suspect I have extracted/melded as many flavors as possible at this point.

 

[Zamial]

Sg 1.028 !!!! Temp is getting ramped up for 24 more hours to 73F, psi is just at positive. Tasting notes from the hot flat grav reading: Smells grainy and a slightly sweet. Taste is a little grainy, starting to get some nice banana and clove notes (still pretty subtle yet), heavy mouthfeel with a hot alcohol finish (no surprise there this young and at 9.6% ABV!)

For someone that is not a wheat beer drinker this is turning out pretty well so far, just taking longer than I expected which is fine as well.

 

[Zamial]

I added the liquid from the oaked flask during the transfer to the serving keg. Last gravity reading was 1.022. It has been ran through a 5 Micron filter and is a deep golden/near amber like in appearance, very much like honey but very hazy.

The room temp, uncarbed sample I pulled from the keg smells of a strange spicy clove-like and citrus like Brett infection in all the right ways. The mouthfeel is heavy and thick but fades to an oakey banana-vanilla (Almost Dragons Milk like) and a subtle Whisky flavor finish.

It does not warm as violently as I was expecting being +10% ABV. This is a VERY dangerous brew. I will offer up some pics & tasting notes when it is chilled and carbed in a few days.

 

[pinback]

Update!?!

 

[Zamial]

Yes, this beer is carbed up, been on tap and now is bottled in 22oz swing tops of which I have about 20 left of.

The Dragons Milk like vanilla/powerful oak has almost completely faded away but the "sour/brett" like flavor has not but it has not intensified either. The batch is NOT infected. What I suspect has happened is that Deaths' Door used a "sour mash" IMO Brett lambiscus to ferment their mash. At full force in a shot or neat the straight whisky is the concentrated which gives it it's unique flavor, when it was diluted into my beer the brett characteristics become obvious. This is is no way a bad thing just not what I was expecting.

The beer is warming and almost thick/under attenuated in feel and a bit sweet. It balances the sour nicely.

This is NOT a session beer and very good as a "1 of" to be shared. Everyone I have given some to has liked it, even folks that strongly dislike the DDWW or are not true "craft beer drinkers" (in-laws). I would take a pic of some in a glass but it looks like rain any moment and I do not think that will help my lack of photo skills. I did just chill one and can snap a pic tomorrow when the sun is out.

Any other info you would like?

 

[pinback]

What will you do different next time?

 

[Zamial]

Next time (if there is one) I would add both the wood chips and the soaked whisky, instead of just the whisky. I may also use a little less base malt in hopes it would dry out a little more.

Do not get me wrong this is a decent brew but it is strong and thick. I wanted to really push the yeast hard and I am sure I did just that. Next time shoot at 8.5-9% instead of 10%.