What's their trick?

joshesmusica · Aug 2, 2015

orangehero said:
I'll disagree as I think that's a misconception running through this thread. Breweries are businesses and they need to optimize, among a number of other factors, quality and turnaround time. Turnaround time is a major factor in the decisions they make and quality is not necessarily the biggest one. For homebrewers on the other hand it is (usually) all about quality. The Trappist breweries make good and often great beer, but that doesn't mean it's the best they could possibly make given infinite time and resources.

I agree that's the way most breweries operate. But I have to disagree about that in regards to the trappists (and possibly other abbey breweries). It even stated in the book that the head monk guy (who only oversees the monastery, but might not have any direct involvement in the brewery) has to approve whether or not they can produce more beer than they are. They limit how much they are allowed to produce because it's a monastery with a brewery, not a brewery with a monastery. Yes they're after some money, but they're not after the big bucks. They're not driven by capitalist greed like most other businesses out there. For the trappists, their pride comes from the quality of the beer, not the quantity.

Derek1985 · Aug 2, 2015

joshesmusica said:
I agree that's the way most breweries operate. But I have to disagree about that in regards to the trappists (and possibly other abbey breweries). It even stated in the book that the head monk guy (who only oversees the monastery, but might not have any direct involvement in the brewery) has to approve whether or not they can produce more beer than they are. They limit how much they are allowed to produce because it's a monastery with a brewery, not a brewery with a monastery. Yes they're after some money, but they're not after the big bucks. They're not driven by capitalist greed like most other businesses out there. For the trappists, their pride comes from the quality of the beer, not the quantity.

I agree.

Derek1985 · Aug 2, 2015

To tie back in to the original thread starter posting, there is no trick. Experience here is invaluable. Quality, healthy yeast is incalculably important. Temperature control of fermentation and mashing for attenuation are also paramount.

Derek1985 · Aug 2, 2015

orangehero said:
The Trappist breweries make good and often great beer, but that doesn't mean it's the best they could possibly make given infinite time and resources.

I'll in turn have to disagree with you on this one. The law of diminishing returns applies here in that infinite time and resources does not equal infinitely better quality beer. Or any product for that matter.

There comes a point, I agree with you, where a decision is made that any increase in quality will come at the cost of product turnaround and other business related aspects, but in the case of the Trappists I'd wager that the increase in quality gained from more time and resources would be negligible.

With that said, I stand by my original statement of speed of turnaround being a byproduct of the adherence to and mastery of their process.

IJesusChrist · Oct 30, 2015

So, to take away from this, what I think might be an issue is yeast numbers and health as being the main issue that moderately experienced brewers see differences to the monks;

1. Higher gravity beers have much more sugar concentrated in their sample. It ***MIGHT*** benefit to add additional nutrient, especially since many recipes call for candi sugar, which has no additional nutrient - just sugar.

2. Yeast count - I think the monks use an excess of yeast in their brews, this might hit #1 too - that additional yeast will have dead yeast (and thus nutrient) in it.

3. Oxygenation... some monk places use open-top fermentors for at least the start of fermentation - again increasing cell count and health of yeast.

Then, the rest is just fermentation temps, secondary temperature, and sanitation, which the moderately experienced shouldn't have a problem with.

I have a fascination with decreasing drinkability time, and if you head over to the BOMM mead page, there is some interesting info that might be reflected with higher gravity beers, especially belgians.

joshesmusica · Oct 30, 2015

IJesusChrist said:
So, to take away from this, what I think might be an issue is yeast numbers and health as being the main issue that moderately experienced brewers see differences to the monks;

1. Higher gravity beers have much more sugar concentrated in their sample. It ***MIGHT*** benefit to add additional nutrient, especially since many recipes call for candi sugar, which has no additional nutrient - just sugar.

2. Yeast count - I think the monks use an excess of yeast in their brews, this might hit #1 too - that additional yeast will have dead yeast (and thus nutrient) in it.

3. Oxygenation... some monk places use open-top fermentors for at least the start of fermentation - again increasing cell count and health of yeast.

Then, the rest is just fermentation temps, secondary temperature, and sanitation, which the moderately experienced shouldn't have a problem with.

I have a fascination with decreasing drinkability time, and if you head over to the BOMM mead page, there is some interesting info that might be reflected with higher gravity beers, especially belgians.

welcome to the convo....

I agree with 1 and 2. 3 might be true but not because of open fermentors. That isn't a common theme among trappist breweries. They do however have some of the most top of the line equipment. So i could certainly believe they're oxygenating way better than the average homebrewer.

secondary temps was part of my discussion. most of them are done with primary after 5 days. then their secondary was lagering temps. not sure if that's what you meant.