What's considered good/acceptable efficiency?

[Rob2010SS]

I've now completed 2 all grain batches and calculated my efficiency. My first one came out at 75.98 and my second one came out at 73.99. What is considered a "good" efficiency? These numbers are based off of post boil gravity/volume and I'm doing fly sparging with a mashout at 165-168 for 10 min.

Thanks.

 

[Yooper]

A good efficiency is one that is simple to maintain, repeatable and reliable, and within your comfort zone.

My efficiency on my system, with batch sparging because it's faster, is always right at 72% for the 1.060ish beers I generally make. Because it's a constant, it's a great efficiency.

 

[Big Monk]

I've now completed 2 all grain batches and calculated my efficiency. My first one came out at 75.98 and my second one came out at 73.99. What is considered a "good" efficiency? These numbers are based off of post boil gravity/volume and I'm doing fly sparging with a mashout at 165-168 for 10 min.

Thanks.

Efficiency is multi-faceted. Bad efficiency can mean more than not getting sugars into solution. It can be an indicator of bad conversion for instance.

Low efficiency with good conversion is not a bad thing if you can stomach the extra cost of grain. This indicates you are simply not getting converted sugars into solution or into the BK.

Low efficiency with poor conversion can be an indicator of downstream issues with conversion, poor pH, issues with gelatinization. Here is an instance where you'd want to look more deeply into your process.

The numbers you quoted lead me to believe that your methods for fly sparging are inadequate, as even a No-Sparge batch < 1.060 should yield 80+ % efficiency with sufficient mixing and conversion. You may want to consider batch sparging as it's easier and should yield the same or better numbers.

Hope that helps.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Efficiency is multi-faceted. Bad efficiency can mean more than not getting sugars into solution. It can be an indicator of bad conversion for instance.

Low efficiency with good conversion is not a bad thing if you can stomach the extra cost of grain. This indicates you are simply not getting converted sugars into solution or into the BK.

Low efficiency with poor conversion can be an indicator of downstream issues with conversion, poor pH, issues with gelatinization. Here is an instance where you'd want to look more deeply into your process.

The numbers you quoted lead me to believe that your methods for fly sparging are inadequate, as even a No-Sparge batch < 1.060 should yield 80+ % efficiency with sufficient mixing and conversion. You may want to consider batch sparging as it's easier and should yield the same or better numbers.

Hope that helps.

Not sure if it matters, but both my batches were >1.060, but not by much. 1.062 & 1.066....

Perhaps I'll try batch sparging instead. I've heard that fly sparging should take like 40-60 minutes but mine has taken like 10-15 mins. Perhaps I'm going to fast?

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm not happy unless my mash efficiency is 80% or better for beers <1.075. It's usually a little higher, up to 85%, but I missed the 80% mark twice for unknown reasons.

A fine crush (especially on small kernel grain), water/grist ratio of 1.5, 60' mash, mash pH of 5.30-5.35, and 2 batch sparges in a converted Coleman cooler gets me there easily.

Occasionally I do step mashes in the kettle, using the cooler for mere lautering, all with similar results.

Now the difference between your 75% and my 82% is about 10% of extra grain you'd need. That may not be a big issue for you.

 

[IslandLizard]

[...] I've heard that fly sparging should take like 40-60 minutes but mine has taken like 10-15 mins. Perhaps I'm going to fast?

There you go, you answered your own question! I'm willing to bet there's significant channeling going on.

Have you used that perforated pie plate yet?

 

[Big Monk]

There you go, you answered your own question! I'm willing to bet there's significant channeling going on.

Have you used that perforated pie plate yet?

The problem with fly sparging is that it's way easier to do it wrong than to do batch sparging or No-Sparge right.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I'm not happy unless my mash efficiency is 80% or better for beers <1.075. It's usually a little higher, up to 85%, but I missed the 80% mark twice for unknown reasons.

A fine crush (especially on small kernel grain), water/grist ratio of 1.5, 60' mash, mash pH of 5.30-5.35, and 2 batch sparges in a converted Coleman cooler gets me there easily.

Occasionally I do step mashes in the kettle, using the cooler for mere lautering, all with similar results.

Now the difference between your 75% and my 82% is about 10% of extra grain you'd need. That may not be a big issue for you.

There are 2 items here that stand out right away. I have been doing water/grist ratio of 1.25. Perhaps i should go up higher to 1.5....

The other is the crush. I used the grain mill at the lhbs and have no idea what it's set to....

In answer to the perforated pie plate, no, haven't used that yet...

Are there any tricks to batch sparging other than draining the tun, refilling it, letting it sit and drain again?

 

[Big Monk]

There are 2 items here that stand out right away. I have been doing water/grist ratio of 1.25. Perhaps i should go up higher to 1.5....

The other is the crush. I used the grain mill at the lhbs and have no idea what it's set to....

In answer to the perforated pie plate, no, haven't used that yet...

Are there any tricks to batch sparging other than draining the tun, refilling it, letting it sit and drain again?

Make sure you stir well before you drain first runnings and ensure you stir the sparge water in well before draining again.

The key is to make sure you get the sugars into solution.

 

[Dcpcooks]

Efficiency is over rated in my opinion. A mid 70's number that's repeatable is what you want. Fermentation control is far more important than efficiency.
With fermentation control and consistent efficiency you have repeatability on brew day. That allows you to tweek your recipes with confidence.

 

[IslandLizard]

There are 2 items here that stand out right away. I have been doing water/grist ratio of 1.25. Perhaps i should go up higher to 1.5....

The other is the crush. I used the grain mill at the lhbs and have no idea what it's set to....

In answer to the perforated pie plate, no, haven't used that yet...

Are there any tricks to batch sparging other than draining the tun, refilling it, letting it sit and drain again?

Mash thickness is not that important or critical, I find it easier to stir and keep hot when it's thinner (more water).

Crush IS important. Many LHBS use the mill's factory standard gap and never ever look back. It also sells 10-20% more grain. Wait until you have wheat or rye included, it may fall straight through the gap without much crush. Then your efficiency really tanks and you'll have a hard time finding that flavor component in your beer. Double crushing is not as good as milling once and right.

IIRC, did someone suggest a $25 Corona type mill if you don't want to spend the $$ on a decent roller one?

 

[Yooper]

T
Are there any tricks to batch sparging other than draining the tun, refilling it, letting it sit and drain again?

Stir it like it owes you money, vorlauf, and drain. No need to let it sit, as the sugars are in the liquid and that's what you drain.

Crush is probably the biggest factor. You can ask them to run it through their mill again, and that often helps quite a bit. Still, in the mid-70s consistently is a good efficiency. Chasing efficiency really isn't cost effective if it's inconsistent. It may mean $1 more of grain, but if it's consistent that is ok in my book.

 

[schematix]

IMHO a combined mash/lauter efficiency less than 70% indicates a major problem that may also manifest itself elsewhere in the process. As has been mentioned already, getting 80%+ is possible with no sparge, and in theory it's possible to get better than 90% with any type of sparge included.

One thing i recently learned that has been very helpful to understanding efficiency, and consequently leading to more predictability, is to split the mashing efficiency and lautering efficiency and tackle them separately.

Kai has a pretty good write-up on the subject (http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Understanding_Efficiency). It took me a while to fully digest it, but it basically comes down to how well you convert from grain to liquid, and then how much of that liquid you get into the kettle. It's actually really useful to measure the mash gravity (good use case for a refractometer!) as the mash progresses. The losses from lautering are pretty straight forward to figure out and minimize - grain absorption and dead space.

 

[Jtk78]

Make sure you stir well before you drain first runnings and ensure you stir the sparge water in well before draining again.

The key is to make sure you get the sugars into solution.

Thanks for mentioning the stirring prior to collecting the first runnings. This is not something I've done on the last couple batches.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Is a mash out step needed in batch sparging?

 

[McKnuckle]

No. Mash out is used to stop enzymatic activity when there will be a long lauter stage, such as what may occur during an extended fly sparge. With batch sparging, you drain quickly and start boiling, so there is not much lag time to worry about.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

On my last two batches I hit 71% for a West Coast IPA with OG = 1.070, and 74% for a Bo Pils with OG = 1.052. My 2-roller mill gap is set at 0.034".

 

[Dcpcooks]

Is a mash out step needed in batch sparging?

No and you can convert sugars all the way through to the kettle. It's a nice technique to hit a gravity or shorten a brew day

 

[-CHRIS-]

A good efficiency is one that is simple to maintain, repeatable and reliable, and within your comfort zone.

I totally agree with this, but if your efficiency is less than 75%, you probably can improve your process. The biggest problem calculating efficiency at our small batch sizes is wort left behind in the boil kettle, chiller, etc. I don't even look at my final volumes anymore, I more focus on the OG itself as a measure of calculating my efficiency.

Chris

 

[dmtaylor]

Most people would probably agree:

Any efficiency above 70% is "good".
Any efficiency above 80% is "great".
Any efficiency in the 60s or lower "kind of sucks".

That being said, don't forget that for really monstrous beers where you are aiming for 1.080 or higher, it's extremely difficult to break 70%. About 60-65% is common with big beers. So if you ever want to do a big beer, plan ahead and use extra grain, extra sparges, and extra long boil. It's just the nature of the beast.

But for "normal strength" beers, see the 3 bullets above.

 

[dmtaylor]

Is a mash out step needed in batch sparging?

Hell no.

 

[brewcat]

Not sure if it matters, but both my batches were >1.060, but not by much. 1.062 & 1.066....

Perhaps I'll try batch sparging instead. I've heard that fly sparging should take like 40-60 minutes but mine has taken like 10-15 mins. Perhaps I'm going to fast?

Probably a bit fast. I aim for one quart per minute. So 26 minutes for 6.50 gallons. I average 75% efficiency.

 

[Shade]

I've been sitting on 63% efficiency for at least the last 7 batches (when I started figuring out what I was hitting and noting it) and it has been a puzzle. Well, the last couple have been 68 and 65 actually, I switched to Beersmith recently which tells me so, before was me putting the grain into an online calculator and reducing efficiency until I got the OG I measured.

Some notes on my process:
- beers normally 1060OG+
- I scale recipes for 63% efficiency so typically have 6.2 - 6.6kg (14lb or so) of grain
- I have a cooler mashtun, 28L
- Mash thickness is normally 2.5-3L/kg
- I target 66.7/152F for mash temp and hit it, and the mashtun holds temperature well, I check it again periodically
- Stir for a couple of minutes when doughing in
- Mash for 60 minutes, stirring every 15 minutes and drain
- Single batch sparge of similar volume to mash volume, stirring again

.. which based on what I have read seems fine.

I speculate my brew shop grinds too coarse - last time I pulled what looked like whole grains out of the grist (but maybe they were cracked and I couldn't tell .. not sure). But feels like an easy target. But I've got my grain from a different brew shop one time and hit the same efficiency.

Anyway - pH is a factor, Brewsmith is telling me my estimated pH is 5.68, which is outside the 5.2 - 5.6 range, should I be worrying about correcting it? Or it's probably a minor issue?

And after reading the big article posting on page 1 or 2, sounds like a first troubleshooting step is measuring the gravity of the first and second runnings independently? So I can get a sense of where I am losing points.

Any other notes/thoughts appreciated.

 

[doug293cz]

Efficiency is multi-faceted. Bad efficiency can mean more than not getting sugars into solution. It can be an indicator of bad conversion for instance.

Low efficiency with good conversion is not a bad thing if you can stomach the extra cost of grain. This indicates you are simply not getting converted sugars into solution or into the BK.

There is no such thing as converted sugars not in solution. The sugar is created a molecule at a time, and these molecules are in solution when created. The saturation SG at wort temps is about 1.300 (66° - 67°P.) You can't get anywhere near saturation in a mash, so none of the created sugar will precipitate out of solution. If you have good conversion efficiency and poor mash efficiency, it's because you are leaving too much extract behind in the mash, and that is poor lauter efficiency.

Poor lauter efficiency is easy to fix. If you are fly sparging and getting less than theoretical batch sparge efficiency, you might as well switch to batch sparging, as you are wasting your time fly sparging.

Low efficiency with poor conversion can be an indicator of downstream issues with conversion, poor pH, issues with gelatinization. Here is an instance where you'd want to look more deeply into your process.

Low conversion efficiency is almost always due to too coarse of a crush and/or too short of a mash time for the crush you have. You can actually measure your conversion efficiency in real time using the method described here.

The numbers you quoted lead me to believe that your methods for fly sparging are inadequate, as even a No-Sparge batch < 1.060 should yield 80+ % efficiency with sufficient mixing and conversion. You may want to consider batch sparging as it's easier and should yield the same or better numbers.

Hope that helps.

Getting 80% mash efficiency for a 1.060 wort with a no-sparge process is possible, but not trivial. You need to get 100% conversion efficiency, and get your grain absorption rate down to 0.078 gal/lb (gotta squeeze to get that low) for a 5.5 gal batch (post-boil vol) with a 1 gal boil off.

The following chart shows what the theoretical max lauter efficiency vs. grain bill weight to pre-boil volume is for various numbers of batch sparges for two different grain absorption rates. As Scotty says, if you can't beat the single batch sparge @ 0.12 gal/lb absorption rate, you should switch to batch sparging.



Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

I've been sitting on 63% efficiency for at least the last 7 batches (when I started figuring out what I was hitting and noting it) and it has been a puzzle. Well, the last couple have been 68 and 65 actually, I switched to Beersmith recently which tells me so, before was me putting the grain into an online calculator and reducing efficiency until I got the OG I measured.

Some notes on my process:
- beers normally 1060OG+
- I scale recipes for 63% efficiency so typically have 6.2 - 6.6kg (14lb or so) of grain
- I have a cooler mashtun, 28L
- Mash thickness is normally 2.5-3L/kg
- I target 66.7/152F for mash temp and hit it, and the mashtun holds temperature well, I check it again periodically
- Stir for a couple of minutes when doughing in
- Mash for 60 minutes, stirring every 15 minutes and drain
- Single batch sparge of similar volume to mash volume, stirring again

.. which based on what I have read seems fine.

I speculate my brew shop grinds too coarse - last time I pulled what looked like whole grains out of the grist (but maybe they were cracked and I couldn't tell .. not sure). But feels like an easy target. But I've got my grain from a different brew shop one time and hit the same efficiency.

Anyway - pH is a factor, Brewsmith is telling me my estimated pH is 5.68, which is outside the 5.2 - 5.6 range, should I be worrying about correcting it? Or it's probably a minor issue?

And after reading the big article posting on page 1 or 2, sounds like a first troubleshooting step is measuring the gravity of the first and second runnings independently? So I can get a sense of where I am losing points.

Any other notes/thoughts appreciated.

Is your 63% efficiency Brewhouse Efficiency or Mash Efficiency?

Brewhouse Efficiency = Mash Efficiency * Fermenter Volume / Post-boil Volume?​

So, brewhouse efficiency is always less than mash efficiency (unless you add sugar to the BK, then things get complicated.) Poor mash efficiency can be due to poor conversion efficiency (too coarse a crush and or too short a mash time), or poor lauter efficiency (usually from insufficient stirring before each run-off, and/or high undrainable MLT volume.)

Mash Efficiency = Conversion Efficiency * Lauter Efficiency​

If your brewhouse efficiency is way below your mash efficiency, you are probably leaving too much wort behind in your BK + plumbing.

Brew on

 

[SoCal-Doug]

A "good" or "acceptable" efficiency is totally up to you, your equipment and your methods. What's more important is if you are consistent (repeatable) and most important, if its low or high, you know why and return to consistency.

You may want 85% but don't have the equipment that will achieve it. Or, you may have loved a brew you did at 65% and want another keg of that exact brew. Don't risk yummy for a number.

It also varies by style. I have lighter recipes that can get 92% mash and 87% BH. Heavier ones (stouts, porters) will be less. No big deal, the 50 cent difference in grain cost isn't my objective.

If you are getting really low numbers, like below 60, take a look at your system and processes and make some corrections. There's some bad juju somewhere. Above that, enjoy the fruits of your labor.