What's causing this Hefeweizen off-flavor?

[Proday137]

I've been having a persistent issue with my hefeweizens that I can't figure out. There's an off-flavor I'd characterize as slightly vegetal, almost herbal. Like a low-level celery note on the finish. It has appeared in every hefeweizen I've ever made, and in no other beers. In fact, this batch is part of a split batch, and the non-hefe beer isn't showing this flavor.

At first I thought it was DMS, but I just don't see how this is possible. I do a vigorous 60-minute boil and a very rapid chill using a CFC. I use the same pils malt for every one of my German-style beers and I've never experienced this flavor in any other beer.

I'm thinking this flavor has to be yeast-derived: if it had to do with my mashing procedure, I'd have seen it in other beers. If it had to do with my boil, I'd have seen it in other beers. If it was bacterial contamination, it would be a heck of a coincidence for the same issue to crop up in 5 separate hefe batches over the course of 2 years--and in no other beers.

Is it possible that this flavor is a sulphur compound from the hefe yeast that will go away if I leave it to clean up in primary? If I had to guess at a possible process flaw, I'd say that I might be rushing the fermentation a little. My usual procedure is to wait until the FG is stable for 3 days and then keg the beer--maybe I should wait it out and see if the flavor clears up?

Has anyone had any experiences similar to the one I'm describing?

 

[giraffe]

Can you give your recipe or more details, such as yeast strain, water, pitch rate, temp etc?

If it is sulfur you can try to scrub it in the keg, keep bubbling co2 through the beer out tap and depressurizing it, google "homebrew scrubbing sulfur with co2" or something you can find directions.

 

[Amadeo38]

The only thing I've heard that would cause the flavors you describe is autolysis. This seems unlikely since you noted racking it to the keg from primary fairly quickly. Are you overbuilding your yeast starter for hef's by chance? Hoping to bump so someone else can chime in.

 

[Proday137]

My recipe is very straightforward:

50% White Wheat
42% Weyermann Floor Malted Pils
8% Weyermann Munich 10L

14IBU of Tettnanger FWH

0.5M cells/mL/P WY3068 (I've done several pitching rates here, ranging from 0.5 to 1.5 M cells/mL/P)

Oxygen for 30 seconds, fermented for 4 days at 64, ramped to 68 over the next 4 days. In the past I've fermented at 62 and I noticed a much stronger off flavor at that temperature. I should also mention I'm using BrewPi with a thermowell into the beer itself, so I'm referring to beer temperature not chamber temperature.

I highly doubt I'm dealing with autolysis, because I've racked to the keg right after primary every time so far.

My working theory is that the 3068 yeast is throwing sulfur at my low fermentation temp, and that I'm rushing the beer into the keg before it can clean itself up.

 

[rmr9]

Has anyone else tried your hefeweizens and noticed the same thing?

 

[Proday137]

Has anyone else tried your hefeweizens and noticed the same thing?

Yes, although they didn't note it as something unpleasant. Which is fine, I guess, but I'd like to know what is happening here!

 

[giraffe]

Ive gotten sulfur at 62 with 3068, (i usually us 3638 these days.), so that is possible, but vegetal and herbal is not how id describe sulfur, though i suppose it could be DMS.

Id still try co2 scrubbing, if it is Sulfur(or dms) compounds you should see a reduction and then you should know.

 

[Proday137]

Ive gotten sulfur at 62 with 3068, (i usually us 3638 these days.), so that is possible, but vegetal and herbal is not how id describe sulfur, though i suppose it could be DMS.

Id still try co2 scrubbing, if it is Sulfur(or dms) compounds you should see a reduction and then you should know.

Thanks for the advice--I may well do that. The latest batch is actually still finishing up fermentation, so I think I'll give the beer a couple of weeks on the yeast cake to see if it clears up. If it's still there when I go to put it on tap, I'll definitely bubble some CO2 through it.

I wonder if the advice to ferment the 3068 at 62 (from Jamil, et al) is intended to refer to chamber temperature, which in my case would imply a beer temperature of 65-66?

 

[TimmyWit]

I wonder if the advice to ferment the 3068 at 62 (from Jamil, et al) is intended to refer to chamber temperature, which in my case would imply a beer temperature of 65-66?

62 should refer to the wort temperature. I actually just tapped a batch today that is almost identical to yours, fermented at 62. I let it go for two weeks before kegging and it has been on the gas for just over a week.

50/40/10 White Wheat/Bohemian Pilsner/Munich 10L
11.5 IBU Tettnang @ 60 minutes
OG 1.049

The Co2 scrub is a good idea. If that doesn't do it, is it possible that you dislike the pronounced clove in a fresh Weizen?

What was your OG?

 

[Proday137]

O.G. was 1.051.

Re: the clove flavor...can't rule it out, but I've never tasted this flavor in a commercial example. I'm trying to get at close to Paulaner as possible with this recipe, but I also love Schneider Weisse and Franziskaner.

 

[TimmyWit]

O.G. was 1.051.

Re: the clove flavor...can't rule it out, but I've never tasted this flavor in a commercial example. I'm trying to get at close to Paulaner as possible with this recipe, but I also love Schneider Weisse and Franziskaner.

The clove and banana will fade a bit given time. The commercial examples may have been subdued since they weren't as fresh as your 2 week old homebrew.

 

[Oldskewl]

I'm struggling with sulfur and bitterness with my first Hefe. I also used 3068 at 66 deg for 11 days. Cold crashed for 8 days and it smelled horribly of sulfur and was quite bitter. I pulled the keg to room temp and let it sit for 4 days. Put it back in the kegerator for 2 days. It has improved but it is still bitter with a smell. It's been 4 more days now. I plan to try another glass tomorrow night. The next time I plan to leave in the primary for 2+ weeks to give it time to clean up. I followed the advice of Ed worts Hefe for 10 days then kegged. But he ferments at 68 degrees.

 

[brewshki]

I use WLP300 for my hefes. I know I am very partial to this strain so I understand if you are as well and don't want to switch. You could try a different strain and see if you get the same flavor. If not, then at least you know it was the yeast.

 

[aron2382]

It might be your palete, anyone else notice this without your input?

Hefe's tend to ferment from 62-66F and then are bumped up into the higher ranges of 68-72F which seems to be what your doing.

try switching yeast strains and see if it gives you same off flavors or even a better taste for your mouths liking.

Never rule out the common denominator... yourself

 

[Proday137]

So...whatever this is, it can be fixed by time in primary. I think I just jumped the gun in the past and kegged the beer before it blew off this particular compound. Oops.

After leaving the beer alone for the 5 days, the flavor is almost completely. The yeast has flocced out, so I didn't see the point in further warm conditioning.

I've also noticed that this seems to be a volatile compound, since a good swirl of the sample glass drives it off. For that reason, I think a CO2 scrub should be able to remove any lingering off-flavors.

So, lesson learned: don't rush a hefeweizen! Makes sense in retrospect; lagers need time to clean up sulfur, and I guess so do hefes.