What yeast to use when US05 doesnt hit FG?

[djonesax]

8 Days ago I brewed my American Amber Ale recipe but this time I bumped up the grain and corn to beef up the gravity. After 7 days of fermentation my gravity is 1.024 which is almost a full point higher than I wanted. I broke my hydrometer last night so I cant check it again until I get a new one. Most of my beers hit their FG in less than a week so I am not expecting this to move much more But I'll give it another week to be sure.

My question, is after another week if the gravity is still high what type of yeast would be a good choice to get it going again?

Here is the recipe.

12 lbs Pale Malt (6 Row)
10 lbs Pilsner (2 Row)
5 lbs Maize, Flaked
1 lbs 12.0 oz Caramel Malt - 60L
1.00 oz Cascade [8.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 14.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Cluster [8.10 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 7.1 IBUs
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 8 -
2.0 pkg Safale US-05

Mash In 150.0 F 75 min
Mash out 168.0 F 15 min

Boil 90 Minutes

OG 1.070

I pitched the yeast at about 70 or lower degrees.

Thanks,

David

 

[Bensiff]

Old yeast, no oxygenation, underpitch???

At that point there isn't much you can do other than perhaps toss on some yeast from another brew at high krausen and hope it is enough. To me that is too much work to make it worth while. So, I'd rack it, brett it, and revisit in 6 months.

 

[djonesax]

- fresh yeast
- no oxygen but then I have never
- 2 packets of dry yeast

Also, my thermometer reads 64F in the room the fermenter is in.

 

[Bensiff]

Get the temp up...It may be too late to make a difference though. When I start getting to higher gravities on beer I let it go the first 3 days (ester production time) and then start pushing it up from there to give the yeast that extra push to get the job done.

 

[BobBailey]

At that temperature I doubt if you'll have a problem with US-05. I have seen a beer of similar gravity using US-05 take 2 weeks or more to finish. Don't panic, just be patient.

 

[jahdub]

It'll finish, just be patient.

 

[djonesax]

Thanks, I plan to check it again on sunday which will be 14 days.

 

[feinbera]

I've used a lot of US-05, it usually gets to at least 80% apparent attenuation, which works out to 1.014 for your amber, but it can take its sweet time. I did an IPA a couple months ago, racked to secondary too soon (a week and a half), gravities were stable but a bit high... it ended up knocking three or four points off in secondary, and leaving a nice sludge of flocc'ed yeast on top of my dry hops... thanks, US-05!

Warm it up to the low 70's, give it a bit of a shake to keep the yeast in suspension, and keep taking readings.

 

[winvarin]

Did you rehydrate the yeast or pitch it dry?

 

[djonesax]

Did you rehydrate the yeast or pitch it dry?

I have only used dry yeast on the last few batches and I pitched dry as per advice from my LHBS. He said it would reduce the risk of contamination if I skipped the re-hydration, which I had actually planned to do but didnt based on his advice.

David

 

[Bensiff]

It's pretty easy to rehydrate. Boil water. Cool. Add yeast. Let it bloom. Dry pitching might be your issue. But yeast can be fickle. Generally, if you pitch enough healthy yeast, add nutrient, oxygenate the wort, and maintain ferment temps you will reliably have good ferments. Then again every so often out of the blue you will do everything right and still get a stall. Had it happen to me once. I watched that show on dogfish head where they had to dump a batch of 90 minute. Despite having a lab and a biologist to take care of the yeast they still had a stall and were unable to get it going again. So, it happens from time to time no matter how good you are.

 

[djonesax]

yeah that's what I figured, I'll do it next time for sure.

I think this beer will be OK. I cant measure the gravity due to a broken hydrometer and the new one arrived already broken, but the airlock is raised up pretty well.

I'll let it sit until Sunday and then take another reading.

Thanks,

David

 

[NoDoubtAddMoreHops]

I watched that show on dogfish head where they had to dump a batch of 90 minute. Despite having a lab and a biologist to take care of the yeast they still had a stall and were unable to get it going again. So, it happens from time to time no matter how good you are.

The beer in that episode of Brewmasters (December 2010) was actually 120min IPA which is 18% ABV, 1.200 OG! That is a completely understandable stall. An OG of 1.070 is very reasonable and well within the capability of 1056/US-05. Raise your temps and let 'er go for a week more.

Also, I've had that beer on tap, it's pretty insane. More like a super hopped barley wine.
http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/other-shows/videos/other-shows-brew-masters-videos/

 

[Bensiff]

Yeah the 120 would be a good deal easier to have a stall. But, the point remains, they reliably made that beer over and over and then one batch just crapped out on them for whatever reason.

 

[paperairplane]

US05 is pretty reliable - I have at least 20 batches with it and probably 75% were not rehydrated. I do not see a benefit when rehydrating this yeast.

I would gently swirl the fermenter to get a little yeast in suspension and put it somewhere warm for a week or two.

 

[djonesax]

The air lock isn't bubbling unless its very slow but it is standing up taller every day since I last checked the gravity 5 days ago so I think its working, just slowly. I kind of dont want to swirl the fermenter because last time I did that, I ended up with some very strange flavors that I couldnt identify the cause and resulted in a cidery beer. I always wondered if it was the green scum on the side of the fermenter getting mixed back into the beer when I stirred it up.

David

 

[Bensiff]

The air lock isn't bubbling unless its very slow but it is standing up taller every day since I last checked the gravity 5 days ago so I think its working, just slowly. I kind of dont want to swirl the fermenter because last time I did that, I ended up with some very strange flavors that I couldnt identify the cause and resulted in a cidery beer. I always wondered if it was the green scum on the side of the fermenter getting mixed back into the beer when I stirred it up.

David

Cidery can be a bit tough to get to the cause. Aceto bacteria can cause it but IME it's tough to get an infection. However acetaldehyde can cause a bit of a ciders character. Perhaps when you swirled it you managed to oxygenate it some which can cause acetaldehyde production.

Anyway, bubbling, especially slow bubbling means very little. Once the fermentation is complete the beer will want to reach equilibrium with the surrounding atmosphere so it will slowly bleed off excess co2 in solution until the beer becomes still. Meaning, what you seeing is likely only off gassing and not active fermentation.

 

[beersk]

I had a porter do this recently do. Just baffles me. Started at 1.060, stopped at 1.021 with US-05. WTF. Makes no sense to me. Aerated with pure O2, pitched 2 packets (dry), let go 2 weeks in the mid 60's. Didn't mash too high or anything and themometer is a Thermopen, so it's accurate. I know the rhyme or reason as to why this happens...It's just plain annoying.

 

[Bensiff]

I had a porter do this recently do. Just baffles me. Started at 1.060, stopped at 1.021 with US-05. WTF. Makes no sense to me. Aerated with pure O2, pitched 2 packets (dry), let go 2 weeks in the mid 60's. Didn't mash too high or anything and themometer is a Thermopen, so it's accurate. I know the rhyme or reason as to why this happens...It's just plain annoying.

Yeah you do everything right and you still have a stall out. I have an electric setup with thermocouples, solid temp control on fermentation, do starters with a stir plate, use yeast nutrient, pure O2 injection...so on the rare occasion I do have a stall I start figuring the cause is not me. I figure it's more likely I got bad yeast, so while I think I'm pitching a certain amount, in reality much of it is dead and I'm way under pitching. We never know how our yeast was handled in transport and storage before we bought it and I'm not setup to check viability so I have to assume all is well because it usually is.

 

[djonesax]

So I got another hydrometer today and the gravity has not changed. Bummer. I swirled it and moved it into my office where my 3 computer and bitcoin miner keep the temp at about 75 We'll see if that does anything.

I thought about trying the beano trick if the gravity doesnt move but I wonder how that will effect the flavor.

 

[winvarin]

Have you tasted it yet? 1070 to 1024 is still around 65% AA. If your thermometer was off at all and you mashed higher than you thought it just may be done.

If the gravity is from unfermentable sugars, they are not as sweet as ferment able sugars. I'd taste it. If it tastes decent, I'd dry hop it 3 or 4 days and then keg that sucker.

 

[djonesax]

I did taste it and it didn't really taste as sweet as I expected but the new hydrometer has this beer at 1.026 after calibrating it. My thermometer in ice water is exactly 32 so I think the mash temp was fine and at 151F for 75 min dropping slightly into the 140's

 

[Bensiff]

I did taste it and it didn't really taste as sweet as I expected but the new hydrometer has this beer at 1.026 after calibrating it. My thermometer in ice water is exactly 32 so I think the mash temp was fine and at 151F for 75 min dropping slightly into the 140's

Just because a thermometer is accurate at freezing or boiling doesn't mean it is accurate at mash temps. I would highly recommend getting a NIST traceable alcohol thermometer (readily available on Amazon) to check all your thermometers against.

 

[djonesax]

Just because a thermometer is accurate at freezing or boiling doesn't mean it is accurate at mash temps. I would highly recommend getting a NIST traceable alcohol thermometer (readily available on Amazon) to check all your thermometers against.

I understand and may try that but I really don't think my mash temps were off. I have mashed at the same temps for the last 6 batches with out issues.

Tonight I took a couple large samples and put a beano tablet in one and WLP036 Dusseldorf Alt Yeast in the other. The yeast I had in the fridge which not the same and was expired but I gave it a shot anyway.

At this point I'm in full on experimentation mode. The beer is so sweet it's sticky so I will be surprised if I get no result from either test. I'd hate to dump it.

David

 

[Bensiff]

Well it's a good experiment to tell you if it's an issue of not getting a good conversion. If it's bad yeast though, you might need to krausen to get it to go any more.

 

[djonesax]

So far 24 hours and nothing is happening in either sample.

 

[djonesax]

So day 2 of the experiment, I took a hydrometer reading the sample I added fresh yeast to did nothing. The sample I added the Beano to, though I saw no signs of fermentation, dropped .006 to 1.018 from 1.024. My new hydrometer is off by .004 so the original reading was 1.028 which I adjusted to 1.024 since it floats in water at 1.004. I hope I am doing that right.

Anyway, even though I saw no fermentation, the beano seems to have made an impact. I added a beano tablet to the sample with the fresh yeast to see if it also goes down and if so I guess I have a double confirmation of unfermentable sugars from the mash.

David

 

[Bensiff]

Well that'll mess with you. Now you have to go and start figuring out what happened with the mash.

 

[djonesax]

So a day later and the sample with new yeast and beano looks to be fermenting. I'l check the gravity tomorrow and if it has dropped, I might just dump that sample back into the fermenter with some more beano and let it work.

 

[djonesax]

So three days ago I dumped the sample with the beano and new yeast into the fermenter and added a couple more crushed beano tablets and stirred it up real good. I waited a day and it looked like all the yeast had settled back to the bottom, so I stirred it up again and now its formed a nice thick yeast cake on top.

I noticed the airlock was not bubbling because the rubber gasket in the fermenter had not seated properly. So the fermenter was not sealed. I have been through it, with this beer for sure. It it comes out of this and tastes like beer, I'll surprised at this point. At least I learned about stuck fermentation's. Now I'm going to be racking my brain trying to figure out how I got a bad mash.

I mashed at 151 with a single infusion and pretty sure my thermometer is right since I checked it against two others. The only thing I did that was culprit was raising the mash temp with direct flame for the mashout, and I had a boil-over during the boil so maybe I was too hot and caramelized some sugars.

David

 

[nick1023]

I had a porter do this recently do. Just baffles me. Started at 1.060, stopped at 1.021 with US-05. WTF. Makes no sense to me. Aerated with pure O2, pitched 2 packets (dry), let go 2 weeks in the mid 60's. Didn't mash too high or anything and themometer is a Thermopen, so it's accurate. I know the rhyme or reason as to why this happens...It's just plain annoying.

Porter started at 1.066 racked two weeks later at 1.025. Waited a week and it is still 1.025... Wondering if I should pitch some dry yeast to "finish" it or simply deal with it...

 

[djonesax]

Being that you already racked it warming it up and stirring up the slurry doesn't sound like an option. My guess is that adding fresh yeast on top will not help since it did not help in my case. If you were going to add more yeast I think a large starter would probably be your best bet but in the end I had to add the Beano tablets because I must not of had any more fermentable sugars for my yeast.

 

[djonesax]

Well this thing is still fermenting away but very slowly. My new Hydrometer read 1.028'ish when I started and now its's reading 1.022 after a week with the new yeast and two beano tablets. So in a week it has dropped .006 points. Since I dont know how far down the beano will take this beer, I may cold crash it as soon as it hits 1.014 and drink it quickly.

David

 

[mabrungard]

Interesting. I just finished a beer with a SG of 1.048 that ended at 1.010 using US-05 with a fermentation temperature of 55F. It was a real trooper.

That was a single pack of yeast that was rehydrated in boiled and fully cooled water. The ferment was underway about 6 hours after pitching. If those 2 packs of yeast were added directly to that high gravity wort, it is very possible that a high percentage of cells did not make it. Regardless of what anyone says, I've found that all yeast needs to be rehydrated in a relatively low ionic content water prior to pitching in yeast. It makes a big difference in my fermentation lag time and that implies that the cell viability is higher when properly rehydrated. (Yes, I've done it both ways)

 

[djonesax]

Another 3 days is has only dropped .002 to 1.020. I have been fermenting this brew for over 4 weeks now, Maybe its a good thing that the beano is working so slow, since I might have time to drink it before it gets sweet in the keg.

 

[andrewmaixner]

I had a stout start at 1.05ish and end at 1.022. It was dry, people loved it. Taste it, and if it's ok on the sweetness levels, get it ready to serve. Don't worry. Also remember that the carbonation will somewhat counterbalance any sweetness remaining.

 

[djonesax]

It been 6 days since my last gravity reading and I'm down to 1.016. I would cold crash it now but I opened my thumb with a kitchen knife and don't want to lift the fermenter just yet. As soon as I can find someone to take half the load I'll cold crash it, keg it, drink it, and start on another batch.

 

[djonesax]

OK, its been about a week and the gravity is still 1.016 and the yeast cake has dropped. I guess the beano pooped out or is just working very slowly. I'm going to cold crash this tomorrow and hope it doesnt taste like cardboard from all the time I opened the fermenter. I brewed this almost exactly 6 weeks ago and its had the beano in it for 3 weeks..

David