What the hell is the difference between a porter and a stout?

[Benny Blanco]

Someone asked me this the other day and I had no idea...

 

[olllllo]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Porter#Types_of_Porter
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Stout#Types_of_Stout

 

[cubbies]

According to the BJCP, the styles have some overlap. There are going to be different definitions from everyone. One way some people distinguish between the two is with the addition of roasted barley. i.e. stouts have it, porters dont. Ray Daniels, author of Designing Great Beers typically agrees with this method. However, he also states that it is perfectly acceptable to use roasted barley in a porter; just in very minuscule amounts. My own interpretation is, in a 5 gallon batch .5lb or more of roasted barley, and you got yourself a stout. Less than that, depending on the other grains of course, and you could realistically define it as a porter.

 

[the_bird]

You want to sound like a beer snob?

Ask WHAT KIND of porter or stout?

I mean, there's a big difference between a Russian Imperial Stout and a dry Irish stout. "Porter" can be a relatively small, dry beer like a brown porter, or something sweeter and thicker.

The most widely-cited theory is that the term "stout" derived from requests for "a stout porter," but given that the most widely-known example of a stout (Guiness) is really a pretty small beer, that doesn't really hold true for all contexts.

 

[david_42]

Stout - porter plus 1/2 pound of roasted barley. Palmer's condensed style guide.

 

[homebrewer_99]

...$0.50 a pint...

 

[kram]

According to the BJCP, the styles have some overlap. There are going to be different definitions from everyone. One way some people distinguish between the two is with the addition of roasted barley. i.e. stouts have it, porters dont. Ray Daniels, author of Designing Great Beers typically agrees with this method. However, he also states that it is perfectly acceptable to use roasted barley in a porter; just in very minuscule amounts. My own interpretation is, in a 5 gallon batch .5lb or more of roasted barley, and you got yourself a stout. Less than that, depending on the other grains of course, and you could realistically define it as a porter.

That's been my rule for stout vs porter as well. well, more of a guideline than a rule really, well, maybe not a guideline exactly, but...

..ahh, you get the idea

 

[brewt00l]

The most widely-cited theory is that the term "stout" derived from requests for "a stout porter," but given that the most widely-known example of a stout (Guiness) is really a pretty small beer, that doesn't really hold true for all contexts.

The comments and Lew Bryson's response linked are worth the read:

http://stonch.blogspot.com/2007/05/debunking-beer-myths-1-stout-is-irish.html

In his book Stout, Michael Lewis tells that "the earliest use of the word 'stout' clearly referring to a beer beverage appears in a letter of 1677", and writes of a 1734 text in which "stout butt beer is mentioned as a feature of London breweries of those times". Arthur Guinness didn't start brewing in Dublin until 1759, and his brewery didn't start using the word 'stout' until 1840, long after his death. Furthermore, Lewis contends that porter originated from stout, and not the other way round.

If further evidence were need that stout was not an Irish offshoot from London porter, beer writer and historian Ron Pattinson (author of the online European Beer Guide) tells me that "all the London brewers whose logs I´ve looked at were brewing beers called 'Stout' well before 1800 ... I'm 100% certain stout originated in London".
.
Ron has also found evidence, in The London and Country Brewer (1736), that stout predated porter, and not the other way around. This backs up Lewis' theory, and is contrary to the assertion on CAMRA's website that "the strongest versions of Porter were known as Stout Porter, reduced over the years to simply Stout".

 

[sonetlumiere85]

My definition has to do with drinkability - I tend to think that porters can be consumed any time of day, usually after a work shift. This comes from many days of drinking pints of Edmund Fitzgerald with habanero beans and rice every day after work in Ohio.

All of my porters are designed to be flavorful, medium bodied, and deliciously drinkable. Somewhat arbitrary, but I see it as the antithesis to stouts, which are definitely after-dinner pints. There are exceptions, of course, but thats just where my tastes lie.

I also agree about the absence of roasted barley in porter, even though my great shining beacon, Edmund Fitzgerald, has a little roasted character. I usually answer the question about the difference between the two with "Well, USUALLY porter doesn't have a significant roasted flavor..." and then go from there.

 

[Tonedef131]

I would never put roast barley in a porter...and I would never make a stout without it.

 

[Clayton]

My definition has to do with drinkability - I tend to think that porters can be consumed any time of day, usually after a work shift. This comes from many days of drinking pints of Edmund Fitzgerald with habanero beans and rice every day after work in Ohio.

All of my porters are designed to be flavorful, medium bodied, and deliciously drinkable. Somewhat arbitrary, but I see it as the antithesis to stouts, which are definitely after-dinner pints. There are exceptions, of course, but thats just where my tastes lie.

I also agree about the absence of roasted barley in porter, even though my great shining beacon, Edmund Fitzgerald, has a little roasted character. I usually answer the question about the difference between the two with "Well, USUALLY porter doesn't have a significant roasted flavor..." and then go from there.

i have never had a porter that was lighter in body than a dry stout
i can drink a dry stout any time of the day as is custmary in ireland

 

[kingwood-kid]

My very broad definition is that a stout is like a porter, but more so, and a porter is like a stout, but to a lesser degree. This is about intensity of roast/color, and has nothing to do with ABV, or whether you used roasted barley or black patent.

 

[AWNbrewer]

Ports http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style12.php
Stouts http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style13.php:D

 

[iaefebs]

My very broad definition is that a stout is like a porter, but more so, and a porter is like a stout, but to a lesser degree. This is about intensity of roast/color, and has nothing to do with ABV, or whether you used roasted barley or black patent.

Have you been thinking about how to answer this the whole time?

 

[Ninoid]

Porter: pale ale + chocolate
Stout: pale ale + flaked barley/oats + roasted barley

 

[mongoose33]

Well, that clears it up, doesn't it?

 

[bracconiere]

lol

 

[tellyho]

Porter = wimpy stout

 

[dmtaylor]

Shhh... there's really no difference... big secret.... shhh.....

 

[bracconiere]

Porter = wimpy stout

not really, porter is a heavily caramelized crystal malt....stout is a light charcoal.....at least that's my experience....

 

[odie]

I always thought of porters tasting a bit sweeter than a stout with something residual on the tongue?

 

[Snuffy]

I had heard somewhere that the Porter style of beer was modeled after a mixed beer that was given to train porters in London after they got off a shift and went into the pubs just before closing time. They got whatever beer was left - which resulted in a pull of more than one style of beer into the same glass. So it could potentially be a mix of ale and stout - which made for a variable drink of an in-between body and color.

*Of course, now that I go research this on the web I find like 3 different versions of stories about the origins of porter and each story has sites claiming the other stories are all BS. There are also claims it came from a Dutch style called "poorter" and a blended style made from 3 beers called "3 Threads" or thirds.

I think porter is close to stouts because it may have originally been a blended beer that included stouts and pales. Regardless of where or who drank it.

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

I believe that originally a porter was a dark beer and a stout was a high AVB beer. But hey, that's just a summation of a few dozen opinions from people that know more than me.

 

[brewbama]

https://beerconnoisseur.com/difference-between-porter-stout

 

[fendersrule]

Roasted barley is the answer.

I also find that porters are more "drinkable" and seem to feel more light weight. A little less like drinking liquid food, but still similar.

I do believe that porters are more carbonated than stouts, on average. Stouts are flatter.

My G/F hates them both and they both remind her of "Chinese cough syrup".

 

[balrog]

Dry stouts are much more quaffable than Porters
Imperial stouts on the other hand are, um, I forget

 

[bracconiere]

My G/F hates them both and they both remind her of "Chinese cough syrup".

damn, you mean like those chinese vitamin pills, the little black balls that my mom made me swallow...lol

edit: now that would be a 'random picture'....hmmm

 

[cmac62]

https://beerconnoisseur.com/difference-between-porter-stout

Thanks for the link. This seems to take Pattison's research a little differently that brewt00l's post #8, but it makes sense that stout would mean strong, since it still does today. I have not heard the roast barely theory before. I don't really like the taste of it so I'll be brewing porters from now on. LOL.

 

[Ninoid]

Irish Stout is 4 - 4.5 ABV.
It is not too strong.

 

[dlettow]

I vote we wait 5 more years and then try answering this again. 12 years is not enough. We will be much wiser in 2024.