What size holes for basket?

[r8rphan]

https://utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#biab

^^ This is sweet.

Any issues with flow? Are you happy with it? Have you ever used bag only as a comparison?

 

[NeoBrew]

That's exactly what I 'do not' want to do.... The whole point of this build is to make things simpler/easier/faster...

I am wondering, those of you who use a bag only, do you ever have issues with cavitation, ie, having to pull the bag away from the sides to allow air out?

I tried everything I could think of to make BIAB recirc work with the bag. The problem seems to be that the voile fabric is just too fine for the particles. It will flow really well for 5 minutes or so, but then start clogging up. The pump would run dry pretty much every 10 minutes if I didn't stir and brush the sides of the bag to keep the pores open. I have a few different threads documenting my trials. The last one I was pretty excited about. I basically tailored a bag to fit my pot and have space around it to maximize flow.

By the time I got done trying to make this all work I was only one kettle short of having a three vessel system. (False bottom, pump, RIMS tube, and another kettle big enough for an HLT.) I've decided to switch over to a three vessel system to allow me to use all this recirc/RIMS equipment.

Other people here seem to have made it work. I'm sure it's possible somehow. My advice is that if you want to do BIAB for it's simplicity, do it as it was invented. No sparge or maybe a dunk sparge, no recirc, etc. If you have a fetish for building equipment and tinkering like me. (And from your pictures you clearly do!) Then just make the jump up to traditional methods.

 

[r8rphan]

I tried everything I could think of to make BIAB recirc work with the bag. The problem seems to be that the voile fabric is just too fine for the particles. It will flow really well for 5 minutes or so, but then start clogging up. The pump would run dry pretty much every 10 minutes if I didn't stir and brush the sides of the bag to keep the pores open. I have a few different threads documenting my trials. The last one I was pretty excited about. I basically tailored a bag to fit my pot and have space around it to maximize flow.

By the time I got done trying to make this all work I was only one kettle short of having a three vessel system. (False bottom, pump, RIMS tube, and another kettle big enough for an HLT.) I've decided to switch over to a three vessel system to allow me to use all this recirc/RIMS equipment.

Other people here seem to have made it work. I'm sure it's possible somehow. My advice is that if you want to do BIAB for it's simplicity, do it as it was invented. No sparge or maybe a dunk sparge, no recirc, etc. If you have a fetish for building equipment and tinkering like me. (And from your pictures you clearly do!) Then just make the jump up to traditional methods.

LOL.. I'm moving 'from' traditional methods... I just talked to the guy at Brew Bag, and he can make me a fully custom bag with lifting loops and the reinforcement shipped for under $40.. So I think I will try that along with Bobby M's false bottom...

'If' that causes problems, (and it might, as you are describing what I am worried about), then I guess I will have no other choice than to go to a custom mesh basket....

One of the things that I am reading about BIAB recirc experiences others have had is that the size of the crush is 'critical'... It has to be larger than I was typically doing before...

This particular bag might be even more of an issue as he says it is 250 micron mesh which is even finer that Wilser's bag, but that recirc should be fine, providing I might have to restrict the output of the pump a bit... but maybe not...

I don't want to go to three vessels (or even two again).. so I will have to figure out a way to make it all work.... Maybe I won't be able to recirc, who knows... but in the end, my hope is to put all the work into the design/build end of it, so that the brewing part is brain dead simple/easy/efficient as it can be....

I'm sure I'll have to make adjustments to the system, the techniques, and even my expectations... I'm learning a lot from the advice of others, and much of it is contradictory, but almost all of it useful....

Hoping that others keep chiming in on potential pitfalls I might encounter, possible solutions/workarounds, and the personal experiences and solutions of as many as possible... I'm so far down this road now, that I kinda have to stay within some certain parameters.. at least for now....

It's been so long since I last brewed, that I'm having to relearn much of this all over... not to mention that quite a bit has changed.. What was considered gospel before is often ridiculed as myth now, and what was considered trivial and unimportant before is now 'critical'....

Who knows, maybe after brewing with this setup for a while with the bag, I may feel the need to change out to a kettle and basket designed for the task at hand... But my finances need to recover for a while first.. big time.. This hasn't been cheap...

 

[r8rphan]

Neobrew, I just checked out your new bag, and I like the idea... But also see what Texaswine was talking about, and the problem you are having.... The steel ring idea is definitely a winner, and I may have to do something similar in the future if this bag doesn't deal with the being able to clear my keggle using my crane issue (which the bag maker claims it will not be)

I have 'one' advantage over your system though, and that is that my heating element is 'in the keggle itself... I don't even have to use the pump at all to hold temp, but I will use it regardless just to keep temperature consistency throughout the keggle if for no other reason...

with the drain out the bottom, if I have issues such as yours, then worse comes to worst, I can bypass the bag for the return, hold my temps in the kettle and just stir the mash in the bag....

We'll see what happens...

 

[TexasWine]

No need to have a custom bag with loops made. Just make a loop of cord and wrap it around the bag, and lift!

Here's me doing just that a couple hours ago. I took this picture with this thread in mind. See how close my ratchet pulley is to the bag?

View attachment 1471212062947.jpg

 

[r8rphan]

What I think would be the hot ticket, would be to have SS hoops like Neobrew has on the top of his bag, at the top and bottom of the custom bag I'm talking about, and then a steel swivel lifting hoop like comes on most baskets, buckets, etc attached to the top ring.... It would have the shape and lifting characteristics of a basket, but actually be a bag....

 

[wilserbrewer]

No need to have a custom bag with loops made. Just make a loop of cord and wrap it around the bag, and lift!

Here's me doing just that a couple hours ago. I took this picture with this thread in mind. See how close my ratchet pulley is to the bag?

Exactly TW, thanks. This is very simple, economical, and the most height friendly method by far. The ratchet pulley remains within reach and is likely stronger than a stitched connection to the bag as the load is spread to the entire bag. A 10" tied loop of cord, strapping or light rope is all that's needed.

 

[r8rphan]

Exactly TW, thanks. This is very simple, economical, and the most height friendly method by far. The ratchet pulley remains within reach and is likely stronger than a stitched connection to the bag as the load is spread to the entire bag. A 10" tied loop of cord, strapping or light rope is all that's needed.

Nothing to hang a pulley off of, which is why I built a crane... Especially, seeing as I will likely be moving the brewery around, depending on time of year, etc...

 

[r8rphan]

So I ordered the false bottom, as well as one of wilser's bags.. When I get the false bottom and install it, I will get exact measurements and have the custom bag made as well...

I like the premise of the bag with loops and the reinforcing straps, as it opens up some other possibilities that are currently running around in my head.. but I am somewhat concerned about the finer mesh of that bag.. So I'm gonna get both and see which works best for me...

I will soon have 'everything' I can think of to get this all going.. only things I might still need is to refill my 20# CO2 bottle, and possibly get some more beer line for the kegerator.. but I may have enough of that in the attic.. I'm pretty sure I have a 5# CO2 bottle that is full too, so I could probably put getting the bigger bottle refilled off for a while if necessary...

 

[TexasWine]

I like the premise of the bag with loops and the reinforcing straps, as it opens up some other possibilities that are currently running around in my head...

I'm just not understanding why you need a bag with loops. You have the perfect set up to just wrap a loop of cord around the bag, just like I do, hook the loop to your crane, and lift away!

As @Wilserbrewer said, loops attached/sewn to the bag would be a potential weak spot. Using a cord the way I do, the weight is evenly distributed across the bag, leaving no concerns for tearing. It's cheap, easy and effective.

 

[NeoBrew]

LOL.. I'm moving 'from' traditional methods...

I don't want to go to three vessels (or even two again).. so I will have to figure out a way to make it all work.... Maybe I won't be able to recirc, who knows... but in the end, my hope is to put all the work into the design/build end of it, so that the brewing part is brain dead simple/easy/efficient as it can be....

There is some bias in my switch to three vessel. I am looking to make the move from the garage to my basement in the near future. I will then have limited vertical room for hoisting. Going single level three vessel will make that possible. I'll trade washing the extra equipment for hauling it from the basement to garage and back every brew day!

One of the things that I am reading about BIAB recirc experiences others have had is that the size of the crush is 'critical'... It has to be larger than I was typically doing before...

I had tried all kinds of different crush sizes too. Part of why I decided to give up is that no matter how coarsely I crushed there were still plenty of fine particles to clog the bag. I had reduced my efficiency from the 80's with straight up BIAB down into the 60's trying to make things work. There must be something about the structure of a traditional grain bed that captures those particles without plugging every possible path for the wert.

You might want to check out post #7 of this thread of mine. I love BrewHardware, but I am concerned that if you don't control the flow carefully those false bottoms will crush like my pizza pan did. When that bag gets clogged it puts more pressure than I would ever imagine on that bottom. Surely Bobby's false bottoms are stronger than my aluminum pizza pan, just not sure if they are strong enough if you get a stuck recirc.

I just want to emphasize again, I think BIAB is great. It really got me started on all grain long before I could have managed to go the traditional route. I think it's virtue is in KISS. When we get into all this fancy stuff it doesn't seem to work as well. (For me anyway.)

 

[r8rphan]

I'm just not understanding why you need a bag with loops. You have the perfect set up to just wrap a loop of cord around the bag, just like I do, hook the loop to your crane, and lift away!

As @Wilserbrewer said, loops attached/sewn to the bag would be a potential weak spot. Using a cord the way I do, the weight is evenly distributed across the bag, leaving no concerns for tearing. It's cheap, easy and effective.

Well, for one, the loops will be at about five and a half feet off the floor.. Then I can just grab them hook them to the clevis and lift... To use the long wilser bag and tie it over I would have to get on a ladder.. One of the main 'activities' I'm trying to do away with over my old system...

And like I said, it opens up some possibilities for the future...

As to weakness, I guess we'll find out... But I didn't see any complaints about that issue when I was researching brewing bags on the web.. Mostly just comments about how sturdy and durable the bags are...

Again, the only real concern I have is the 250 micron vs 400 micron mesh...

 

[r8rphan]

You might want to check out post #7 of this thread of mine. I love BrewHardware, but I am concerned that if you don't control the flow carefully those false bottoms will crush like my pizza pan did. When that bag gets clogged it puts more pressure than I would ever imagine on that bottom. Surely Bobby's false bottoms are stronger than my aluminum pizza pan, just not sure if they are strong enough if you get a stuck recirc.

Yeah I read through all of those stories the other day.. I'm thinking that if I have issues, I'll find a way to create my own sturdier legs/support....

In the end I may just do it the old fashioned way and just soak them, but I will use recirc regardless, even if it's bypassing the grains, if for nothing more than to just keep consistent temperature throughout the keggle...

 

[r8rphan]

Okay, so I received and installed my new false bottom from @Bobby_M....

There is only about 1/2" clearance between the top of the grid (where the bag full of grains will sit) and the top of the heater element..

This seems close to me... Should I get longer screws and raise it up another 1/2" ?

Or even more than that?