What Sanitisers and Cleaners are used.

[slym2none]

Cleaning is not the same as sanitizing. You need to clean first (think of getting mud clumps, or dried krausen, off your stuff) and then sanitize. Large clumps of stuff very well might not get completely sanitized if not cleaned off first.

 

[jiMithing83]

Hi , everyone

I am new user but not new brewer. Still not that experienced one

I made dozen of batch and always used bleach+vinegar mix for utensil and bottle cleaning.
Now I have a new fermenter which look like attached ..

I read all posts on this topic about bleach but couldnt find any answer for this



1) I wanna ask if bleach and vinegar mix would be unhealthy for this fermenter for cleaning and sanitizing ?
2) And why do I need special cleaner if i would use sanitizer ? It is killing all the bacteries anyway ?


Thanks

Do NOT mix bleach and vinegar. Bleach combined with any weak acid will dissociate the chlorine. Chlorine gas is bad. Seriously. Buy some oxiclean for cleaning and star san for sanitizing, and don't die.

Edit: this goes double for ammonia, which can produce hydrazine when mixed with bleach. That stuff could kill you and others, as it's explosive at the right concentration.

 

[_sin_]

Do NOT mix bleach and vinegar. Bleach combined with any weak acid will dissociate the chlorine. Chlorine gas is bad. Seriously. Buy some oxiclean for cleaning and star san for sanitizing, and don't die.

Edit: this goes double for ammonia, which can produce hydrazine when mixed with bleach. That stuff could kill you and others, as it's explosive at the right concentration.

Ohh thank you for explanation

But actually i did before this mixture but of course i didnt mix them directly.
First 20 lt of water then 1 cap of bleach and 1 cap of vinegar into the water.

Would this mixture ruin my bucket ? Which was on the last post.

 

[MarkKF]

I would never use vinegar for fear that whatever bugs make vinegar would find its way into my equipment. Am I crazy?

 

[LBussy]

Hrmph ... I think I posted in wrong thread.

 

[_sin_]

There are 2 more things I found for cleaning or sanitizing .. But I just read them somewhere so I am not sure about them thats why I wanted to ask here ..


Is Hydrogen peroxide (%50) can be used for sanitizing ?
-What should be the amount of mixture ?
-Is it No-rinse ?

Is Povidone-iodine (%10) can be used for sanitizing ?
-What should be the amount of mixture ?
-Is it No-rinse ?

 

[masskrug]

Do NOT mix bleach and vinegar. Bleach combined with any weak acid will dissociate the chlorine. Chlorine gas is bad. Seriously. Buy some oxiclean for cleaning and star san for sanitizing, and don't die.

Edit: this goes double for ammonia, which can produce hydrazine when mixed with bleach. That stuff could kill you and others, as it's explosive at the right concentration.

I made a DIY shower cleaner with bleach and vinegar. There was an immediate fog, burning eyes, burning throat and coughing. I guess I am lucky to be alive.

 

[jiMithing83]

There are 2 more things I found for cleaning or sanitizing .. But I just read them somewhere so I am not sure about them thats why I wanted to ask here ..


Is Hydrogen peroxide (%50) can be used for sanitizing ?
-What should be the amount of mixture ?
-Is it No-rinse ?

Is Povidone-iodine (%10) can be used for sanitizing ?
-What should be the amount of mixture ?
-Is it No-rinse ?

Neither is no rinse, not sure about concentrations or effectiveness of either but you do not want to invest hydrogen peroxide or iodine. Just get star san or another brewer's sanitizer, the cost difference isn't worth the risk to make your own.

 

[jiMithing83]

Ingest, not invest

 

[_sin_]

Neither is no rinse, not sure about concentrations or effectiveness of either but you do not want to invest hydrogen peroxide or iodine. Just get star san or another brewer's sanitizer, the cost difference isn't worth the risk to make your own.

I actually had a decent comments about iodine but still i am not sure about dilution process ..
And star san not easy to find here .. I am not living in Usa

After all I am feeling that i will use bleach again which actually I dont want.


What about potassium metabisulfite ? I read somewhere people having problem about fermantation after using this but so many people recommend it.

 

[jiMithing83]

You could use blah and THEN vinegar, or vice versa, but rinse well between applications and do not mix them. I have no experience with potassium metabisulfate.

 

[rmarshall100]

Can you get Iodophor? This is an iodine based sanitizer. Following the instructions, this is a no-rinse sanitizer that is extremely effective if you can't find Starsan. Bleach is a bad idea, because you have to rinse afterwards thus potentially undoing the sanitization.

 

[ncbrewer]

I actually had a decent comments about iodine but still i am not sure about dilution process ..
And star san not easy to find here .. I am not living in Usa

After all I am feeling that i will use bleach again which actually I dont want.


What about potassium metabisulfite ? I read somewhere people having problem about fermantation after using this but so many people recommend it.

Here is an article that discusses using bleach as a no-rinse sanitizer by using a low concentration: http://www.brewingnews.com/greatlakes/9710/homebrew0.html
I've never tried it, so can't give it a personal recommendation. I understand there are test strips for checking the concentration. I think these would be necessary since bleach looses potency over a period of months, so you would never really know the true concentration. I think Star San is way better, but you might try this if you can't get Star San or Iodophor.

 

[Newsman]

Would OxyClean Whitening work OK for cleaning? Any reason NOT to use it? I've used Oxy Free, but never the whitening. Just got some for a tough stain on some clothes, so I thought I might try that.

 

[IslandLizard]

Would OxyClean Whitening work OK for cleaning? Any reason NOT to use it? I've used Oxy Free, but never the whitening. Just got some for a tough stain on some clothes, so I thought I might try that.

It depends what the "whitening" agent is. Could be bleach (powder). Look at the ingredients list.

 

[Newsman]

It depends what the "whitening" agent is. Could be bleach (powder). Look at the ingredients list.

Not sure what the "whitener" is, but it does give the standard warning to keep out of eyes and don't swallow it. I'm guessing as long as I do a thorough rinse, I should be fine.

Edit: Found the MSDS sheet for this product. It has Sodium Carbonate, Sodium Percarbonate, Sodium polycarboxylate, Alpha Amylase, & Ethxylated alchohol C12-C16

 

[IslandLizard]

Not sure what the "whitener" is, but it does give the standard warning to keep out of eyes and don't swallow it. I'm guessing as long as I do a thorough rinse, I should be fine.

Edit: Found the MSDS sheet for this product. It has Sodium Carbonate, Sodium Percarbonate, Sodium polycarboxylate, Alpha Amylase, & Ethxylated alchohol C12-C16

The Sodium polycarboxylate component is the "whitening" agent, commonly used in laundry detergents. It's a dispersant for soils (dirt), removing them and preventing redeposition. This keeps materials (e.g., fabrics) from graying (caused by redeposition), so they stay "whiter."

Alpha Amylase breaks down starches as we know so well.

Alcohol ethoxylates (AE) are a class of non-ionic surfactants, allowing the detergents access to the surfaces to be cleaned.

So, yes, this product includes some extra cleaners and can be used instead of regular "Oxi-Clean," with the same precautions as to skin contact, splashing in the eyes and ingesting.

The O2 active ingredient in these "Oxi-Clean" products is Sodium Percarbonate, so the higher percentage it contains, the more oxygen you'll get. PBW contains less than 25% of it and claims to give 4-5% O2, however that's measured. O2 breaks down proteins and carbon deposits.

 

[CaptMogul]

I purchased a 1 gallon bottle of animal iodine wound wash from the farm supply. 1/4 oz per gallon of water is what I use. It comes in a brown plastic bottle and I added a pump also. In the 5 years that I have been using it I have never had an infection. On brew day I make 3-4 gallon batch and soak everything in it and also slosh in the tun and kettle. It was $ 10 or so back then. At 77 I will never use 1/2 of it.

 

[WilliamSlayer]

This might be the best place to pose this question. Does Star San have an expiration date? I have been using the same bottle of Star San and for several years, and it seems to be just fine! But, I got to wondering this week as I was Brewing if I should be looking for a new bottle. Anyone have any thoughts or experience with Star San going bad?

 

[Geneticjim]

This might be the best place to pose this question. Does Star San have an expiration date? I have been using the same bottle of Star San and for several years, and it seems to be just fine! But, I got to wondering this week as I was Brewing if I should be looking for a new bottle. Anyone have any thoughts or experience with Star San going bad?

As far as I know as long as the pH is under 3 it is still good. There are test strips that can test pH

 

[IslandLizard]

This might be the best place to pose this question. Does Star San have an expiration date? I have been using the same bottle of Star San and for several years, and it seems to be just fine! But, I got to wondering this week as I was Brewing if I should be looking for a new bottle. Anyone have any thoughts or experience with Star San going bad?

Five Stars puts an expiration date on the bottles and jugs, which in my mind is totally bogus. A few months back I finally finished a 32oz jug of Starsan that I had bought about 7 years ago. Still worked like it did the first day. If anything, the concentrate may have gotten a tint or 2 darker over that time, compared to the new gallon I bought.

I keep the working solution in buckets, there's always something soaking in it, and when it gets grayish or a bit too scummy to my (already low) standards, I dump it and make fresh. That's always a nice and happy day.

Now I did notice when the working solution sits for a week or longer a white chalky precipitate forms on the bottom. Racking hoses laying there also get coated on the inside with that. I pour or rack the Starsan from the top into another bucket and leave the precipitate, dust, and other debris behind. I simply run a draw brush through the hoses, rinse them out and they go back into the Starsan.

After a few (2-6) weeks, the Starsan tends to get a slick feel to it . It still seems to work fine though, but hoses and stuff feel weird. That slickness eventually disappears, and the solution becomes clearer with time. Perhaps the dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid decomposes slowly, which could change its sanitation properties. I always keep the pH under 3.0 by adding a few drops of phosphoric acid (Duda Diesel). Anything stored in that solution gets brushed, rinsed and immersed into fresh solution before use.

Some say when you use distilled or RO water the working solution won't get cloudy (as quickly). Maybe that precipitate doesn't form then either. I've never tested that.

Since I got a gallon of concentrate, I've become a bit more liberal in making fresh solutions.

 

[WilliamSlayer]

Thanks guys, I will check into some test strips just to be sure my stuff is still under 3.0.

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks guys, I will check into some test strips just to be sure my stuff is still under 3.0.

The working solution that is...

 

[helibrewer]

I mix StarSan with RO water and it stays clear. Dudadiesel also sells NaOH (Food grade lye), I buy the 2lb containers (pelletized) and mix my own 3% caustic (w/w) solution for beverage line cleaning and close loop cleaning my plate chiller.

 

[Newsman]

I use Oxyclean for cleaning, and then after a thorough rinse, I use StarSan to sanitize

 

[kh54s10]

I have a 5 year old bottle of Starsan. Only about an ounce left. There is no expiration date on it. One of the caps is cracked. It still mixes well and maintains the right pH.

When I get low I top up some in my 5 gallon water bottle. I must have good water because it never goes cloudy. It maintains a good pH and lasts a long time.

For cleaning I have had great results from any Oxyclean or generic version.

 

[WilliamSlayer]

I was advised a long time ago to use distilled water, so i always have unless in a pinch.

 

[nfcwhatimdoing]

Ok, so kind of a long story. I bought a used whiskey barrel hoping to add a top to it for a kitchen table (I'm one of those weird people, lol). Called a local brewing company to see if they had a sanitizer for it. He said unless I cut it open and sand it down to new wood, it will grow mold/fungi/etc even if i cleaned it. "It might be ok for a while, maybe two months or two years." Is this true? I really don't want to have to cut it open since I want to use the whole thing and I feel like that would ruin it. Sorry if this is totally in the wrong place. You all seem very knowledgeable.

 

[oakbarn]

Ok, so kind of a long story. I bought a used whiskey barrel hoping to add a top to it for a kitchen table (I'm one of those weird people, lol). Called a local brewing company to see if they had a sanitizer for it. He said unless I cut it open and sand it down to new wood, it will grow mold/fungi/etc even if i cleaned it. "It might be ok for a while, maybe two months or two years." Is this true? I really don't want to have to cut it open since I want to use the whole thing and I feel like that would ruin it. Sorry if this is totally in the wrong place. You all seem very knowledgeable.

BS. If it is dry it will not grow anything. How many half whiskey barrels do they sell for gardening? None that I have ever seen have mold even when filled with garden soil and used. I have a 5 gal used whiskey barrel that I use for beer and when it does not have beer, I keep it filled with water. I have had it for a couple of years and there is no mold.

 

[peterlonz]

There are a few possible options that should reduce the risk of mould:
1) Fill with a strong salt solution & leave for maybe a month before draining.
2) Purchase some timber treatment crystals ( my local Hardware store has this) make a solution & roll the barrel around for a few weeks so all internal surfaces are "treated".
3) Use 100% ethylene glycol (that's right vehicle cooling system ant-freeze).
Put in barrel & roll around daily for a couple of weeks.
4) lowest cost: add 4 lites of swimming pool liquid chlorine & 4 litres of water, again roll the barrel around daily.
Finally you must thoroughly dry the barrel timber, maybe use a vacumn cleaner output hose & feed into the barrel. This could take a week depending on atmospheric conditions. Run the vacumn maybe at 2 hour intervals.