What Sanitisers and Cleaners are used.

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I keep a spray bottle of starsan on hand at all times. It's hard to beat the speed and easy of use.
I have all my fermenting equipment taking a bleach bath as I'm brewing and rinse them with warm water from my chiller. Then I spray them with starsan.
I use iodopher for bottling and racking because I dislike foam.

I found each one has it's drawbacks. Bleach breaks down vinyl hoses and turns them white then you can get off flavors from them. Iodopher stains things. Starsan foams up and is acidic enough to be harsh on my hands. The foam makes it hard to see when a bottle is full and my dry hops ride out on it.
 
qvantamon said:
I seem to remember some people using StarSan on carboys and Iodophor on bottles (since StarSan is clear and foamy, Iodophor is not foamy but stains).
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I use StarSan for everything, but recently I tried SaniClean by the same manufacturer for sanitizing kegs. Allegedly it's a low-foaming version of StarSan.

I wanted the low-foam so I can see the liquid level in the keg to prevent overfilling (which I've done twice with StarSan, once resulting in a backflow of beer into my regulator. Do not want.).

The SaniClean is definitely a different formula - it's a different color in the bottle, uses a different dilution and smells a lot stronger.

-Joe
 
shortyjacobs said:
Balsy re: the hot tap water rinse. Most will avoid that due to hot tap water not being sterile...but others have luck with it. :mug:
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If it's city water it's probably just fine. The problem is the aerator being infected. I'd expect simply soaking the aerator in a sanitizing solution of some sort would make it sterile enough.

When I transferred my batch from primary bucket to a 5gal carboy, I filled the carboy up with water and bleach, popped in the siphon equipment, let it sit for a while, and then siphoned off the solution. I had the solution flow over the tap as it emptied out of the carboy.

Seems to have worked well enough.
 
nostalgia said:
I use StarSan for everything, but recently I tried SaniClean by the same manufacturer for sanitizing kegs. Allegedly it's a low-foaming version of StarSan.

I wanted the low-foam so I can see the liquid level in the keg to prevent overfilling (which I've done twice with StarSan, once resulting in a backflow of beer into my regulator. Do not want.).

The SaniClean is definitely a different formula - it's a different color in the bottle, uses a different dilution and smells a lot stronger.

-Joe
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FYI, Saniclean is NOT a sanitizer, it's a cleanser. If you read the Tech Sheet, it says "Always sanitize equipment just prior to start up with a
suitable sanitizer as required by local public health regulations. "

Starsan's tech sheet, by comparison, lists it as a USDA recognized sanitizer.
 
San of the Star. Its the only way I have ever gone and NEVER have had a problem! I like the pretty foam in the carboys too!
 
shortyjacobs said:
FYI, Saniclean is NOT a sanitizer, it's a cleanser. If you read the Tech Sheet, it says "Always sanitize equipment just prior to start up with a
suitable sanitizer as required by local public health regulations. "

Starsan's tech sheet, by comparison, lists it as a USDA recognized sanitizer.
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I have read the tech sheet. However according to my reading, Saniclean still works as a sanitizer, it's just not registered with the USDA as a sanitizer because of red tape issues.

For example, in this thread about the podcast with Charlie Talley of Five Star Chemicals:

Sani-Clean is not an EPA recognized sanitizer due to tougher laws that dictate labeling it as such, but it is basically just Star-San without the foam. The other difference is that it is weaker so you have to use more, 1oz. per 3 gallons of water. There really isn’t much more to say about this product other than, if you don’t like the foam use this.
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I'm listening to the actual podcast now. In the discussion about what the EPA lets them put on the labels, Charlie was asked "whether or not [Saniclean] is actually a sanitizer":

Charlie Talley discussing Saniclean registration as a Sanitizer said:
...it required two or three independent labs to duplicate your research...then you got into $4500 where they had to give you a new stamp every year...it got very heavy quickly, as far as the monetary amounts.

I can use the product and say it's an acid rinse, because that's what it is, like Starsan is an acid rinse. It's not my fault if it kills something.
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Apparently they had Starsan approved in the 70's when the EPA was less stringent.

Then the interviewer asked the question directly:

Interviewer guy said:
Then is it safe for me to say that an acid rinse is a sanitizer - that's why you would acid rinse something, right?
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Charley Talley said:
That's right.
Click to expand...

Interviewer guy said:
So what's the difference in the chemistry?
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Charley Talley said:
They're both based on phosphoric acid, and both work on a pH of 3.5...The Starsan is a high foamer. Then you have to find a soap that will live in the acid that's a low foamer.
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So I'll take the word of one of the founders of the company.

Thanks,

-Joe
 
+1 for StarSan. Great stuff. The foam, which I understand is as effective as the liquid, actually lets you use less of the product. Shake it up, get foam or liquid on everything for a few minutes, and the bugs are gone.
 
I have been using Brew Vint Cleanitizer to great success so far...is this stuff just not as readily available? I got it with my Austin Homebrew Supply kit and it works great!

I haven't had any problems with buggies so far and I am on batch 5.
 
I use iodophore to sanitize. I use bleach to "clean". If your equipment does not dry out properly you can get mold growing in small hard to find places. Because of this I initially clean with a bleach soak, rinse well then sanitize using Iodophore, plus I can use the iodophore as a starch reagent.
 
+1 for starsan, when i first started using it i was running through it like crazy but then i got smart and since i keg i had an extra bottling bucket sitting around and i am able to just keep a 5 gallon batch mixed up at all times. It also makes it nice when i make starters or clean up because i dont have to mix its already sitting there for me. I figure as long as its not dirty and still foams/acidic ill be good to go.
 
StarSan FTW!

I love that it's no rinse.

I love that I can mix 2.5 gallons with distilled water and use it over and over...

I love that it doesn't stain.

I love that once the PH gets above a certain point (like when you rack beer onto it) it becomes YEAST FOOD!

I love that I can keep a spray bottle for weeks and weeks and just spritz everything.

I love that there is no chance of getting chlorine off-flavors (BTW - If you are using Chlorine Bleach as a sanitizer, you REALLY need to mix about 1 TBSP of Bleach AND 1 TBSP of Vinegar in 5 gallons of water, in order to make an effective sanitizer. Bleach alone is great for removing stains, but not that effective at it's usual PH to kill bugs. Make sure you put them each in the water, not together. Mixing the two without diluting with water will be BAD for you.)

I usually love the foam.
 
Homercidal said:
StarSan FTW!

I love that it's no rinse.

I love that I can mix 2.5 gallons with distilled water and use it over and over...

I love that it doesn't stain.

I love that once the PH gets above a certain point (like when you rack beer onto it) it becomes YEAST FOOD!

I love that I can keep a spray bottle for weeks and weeks and just spritz everything.

I love that there is no chance of getting chlorine off-flavors (BTW - If you are using Chlorine Bleach as a sanitizer, you REALLY need to mix about 1 TBSP of Bleach AND 1 TBSP of Vinegar in 5 gallons of water, in order to make an effective sanitizer. Bleach alone is great for removing stains, but not that effective at it's usual PH to kill bugs. Make sure you put them each in the water, not together. Mixing the two without diluting with water will be BAD for you.)

I usually love the foam.
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I love that it has a pH limt to it's effectiveness. Thus making it an easy product to evaluate it's stibility.
 
Jesterday said:
Listen to Revvy, I have read 50% of his informational topics and he knows what he is talking about. Or at least he acts like he knows and since I don't know any better, I believe every word he writes. If he told me to throw dirt in my beer to clear it, then I would and I would guarantee it would work, because Revvy said it.
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Nothing like blindly following someone because they act like they know what they're talking about. ;) Cult of Revvy FTW! :D

I can't wait till Revvy finally snaps and starts telling you people to sanitize with their own urine, or ferment with Fleischmanns, or do a SMaSH with black patent, and you listen to him, because, well, Revvy said it! I would El-Oh-El for days!
 
I use both iodophore and Starsan, as well. Which one I choose depends largely on habit and which one is closer at the time. I do keep Starsan in a spray bottle, and that is magnificent. Starsan also is easier to mix up in smaller batches, while iodophor seems more suited to larger batches.

I'm off to brew a SMaSH with black patent and cheesy hops, now, cuz Revvy said so.


TL
 
Jesterday said:
Listen to Revvy, I have read 50% of his informational topics and he knows what he is talking about. Or at least he acts like he knows and since I don't know any better, I believe every word he writes. If he told me to throw dirt in my beer to clear it, then I would and I would guarantee it would work, because Revvy said it.
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Hopfully you're joking.

Look, there are plenty of people around here who have either brewed a lot of beer or brewed for a long time. AFAIK, Revvy is included in that group. He just happens to be uber-active on the forum compared to others.

Uber-activity does not equal brewing omniscience. Take the advice or Revvy, me, or anyone else for that matter - and put it to use to come up with systems and methods that work for YOU.
 
TexLaw said:
I use both iodophore and Starsan, as well. Which one I choose depends largely on habit and which one is closer at the time. I do keep Starsan in a spray bottle, and that is magnificent. Starsan also is easier to mix up in smaller batches, while iodophor seems more suited to larger batches.

I'm off to brew a SMaSH with black patent and cheesy hops, now, cuz Revvy said so.


TL
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Also watch out for that tricky in-the-glass-fermentation after you crack open a bottle, TxLaw. That can really sneak up and bite you in the arse! :D :D
 
ohiobrewtus said:
Also watch out for that tricky in-the-glass-fermentation after you crack open a bottle, TxLaw. That can really sneak up and bite you in the arse! :D :D
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I'm well aware of that, believe me. In fact, I got to witness a bit of that just recently while judging a particularly pickley Dixie Cup entry. Oh, joy!:eek:


TL
 
This topic got me thinking about my hot water rinse practices... I've never had trouble but...

Here's what I found as a safe no rinse use of bleach:

How to Mix and Use Bleach Solutions

Normally, one tablespoon ( = 15 milliliters = 0.5 liquid ounce) of concentrated bleach per gallon of water at normal room temperature is considered to be the equivalent of 200 PPM. This is the standard for cleaning food preparation surfaces. Cleaning equipment requires a higher concentration than utensil rinse or treatment of food preparation equipment.

1/4 cup bleach to 5gal water at 75°. dip 1 min. drip dry. No rinse.

I just need to back off on my heavy handed bleach use, and I could go to no rinse bleach.

Source: http://www.allqa.com/ChlorineSanitizing.htm
 
starrfish said:
This topic got me thinking about my hot water rinse practices... I've never had trouble but...

Here's what I found as a safe no rinse use of bleach:

How to Mix and Use Bleach Solutions

Normally, one tablespoon ( = 15 milliliters = 0.5 liquid ounce) of concentrated bleach per gallon of water at normal room temperature is considered to be the equivalent of 200 PPM. This is the standard for cleaning food preparation surfaces. Cleaning equipment requires a higher concentration than utensil rinse or treatment of food preparation equipment.

1/4 cup bleach to 5gal water at 75°. dip 1 min. drip dry. No rinse.

I just need to back off on my heavy handed bleach use, and I could go to no rinse bleach.

Source: http://www.allqa.com/ChlorineSanitizing.htm
Click to expand...


Sorry, I can't take you that serious because of the picture you have as your avatar.:cross:
 
I use Star San exclusively but sometimes I think about switching to Iodophor. I like the fact that you can swirl Iodophor around in your carboy/keg and get zero foaming. Star San foams like crazy when you shake it up. I know everyone says not to fear the foam and I don't but I don't like the oil slick it leave behind in my beer. :)
 
Jesterday said:
If he told me to throw dirt in my beer to clear it, then I would and I would guarantee it would work, because Revvy said it.
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I'd tell you to use time with your beer, but use dirt for a clearing agent in your wine...

Bentonite is clay...

I figured you were just trying to throw something "insane" out there but I found it funny none the less.

:D
 
Because of Iodophor staining issues I started with StarSan. It hasn't failed me so I see no reason to switch.
 
I had always used Idophor...switched to Star-San about 4 batches ago...Love it!
Ive started using it for all sorts of things beyond brewing beer...whenever I need to sanitize anything it gets a good squirt down of Star-San
my big question about it though is how long does it have to be in contact with the surface to be completly sanitized
 
Completely sanitized is kind of a tricky word as this word does not have a quantifiable measure as far as I know. Completely sterilized is another thing. The manufacturer suggests a 1 minute contact time but has said that 30 seconds is a valid time as far as I remember. This is from a thebrewingnetwork.com podcast so someone call me out if I'm wrong as I'm half drunk......... Ok full drunk.
 
Scut_Monkey said:
Completely sanitized is kind of a tricky word as this word does not have a quantifiable measure as far as I know. Completely sterilized is another thing. The manufacturer suggests a 1 minute contact time but has said that 30 seconds is a valid time as far as I remember. This is from a thebrewingnetwork.com podcast so someone call me out if I'm wrong as I'm half drunk......... Ok full drunk.
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There is a quantifiable measure of "sanitize". Sanitize means to reduce the risk of contamination by 99.9%. This is measured by the product, at a given concentration and contact time, destroying 99.9% of E. Coli and/or Staphylococcus aureus.
 
ahh yes, I had known that Fully sanitized was hard to determin givin all the possibble variables just as long as star-san doesnt require anythign more than 1-2 min at recomended diluted strength
anyways sorry to drag the thread off topic
STAR SAN all the way!
hah
 
So have I ruined my bottles?

After reading this thread I soaked a case of bottles I got from a craft brew bar in Sun Oxygen Cleaner (Wallyworld's generic version of OxyClean with no perfumes). Many of these bottles had yeast deposits in the bottom so I figured this would get much of that out and free me of the hassle of having to scrub these bottles.
I soaked them for about 20 hours and when I got them out they felt like they were almost etched. This texture would not rinse off with cold or hot water. I found if i rubbed hard with a dish cloth I could get it off but what a pain. Of course, the inside has the same residue as the outside. I think I can get all (most?) of it off the inside using a bottle brush. This is certainly not easier than my old method of cleaning them.
Did I soak them too long? Is the residue safe if I don't get all of it off the inside of the bottles or will it cause off flavors, no carb, poor head retention?
 
No. It's just the wrong water. I can't use Oxi-Clean, because it does exactly the same thing to my bottles- leaves a film on them. Use an acid wash of white vinegar to remove the coating, and use something like PBW instead of Oxi-Clean.....or use different water.
 
I use TSP for cleaning and sodium metabisulfate for sanitizing. All came with my wine making equipment. You have to rinse the sodium metabisulfate off as good as you can, I always do, and have never had any problems (infections).


Lately the TSP has been cloudy as soon as I mix it. I think something must be up with my water.
 
rico567 said:
No. It's just the wrong water. I can't use Oxi-Clean, because it does exactly the same thing to my bottles- leaves a film on them. Use an acid wash of white vinegar to remove the coating, and use something like PBW instead of Oxi-Clean.....or use different water.
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What is the "wrong water"? I just bought the same oxy product from the local wallymart, mainly from this thread. I was looking for things to clean and sanitize my equipment with out having to run to the local brew store(which isnt so local).
 
Stephen said:
What is the "wrong water"? I just bought the same oxy product from the local wallymart, mainly from this thread. I was looking for things to clean and sanitize my equipment with out having to run to the local brew store(which isnt so local).
Click to expand...

Specifically, we are in the country, on a well. Our well water is loaded with dissolved calcium and iron. This will not make good beer (or coffee, and we don't use it for drinking or cooking, although we could).

I could invest in a sufficiently sophisticated filter system (regular particulate filters or carbon filters for chlorine or chloramine won't filter what we've got), probably a big aquarium reef tank system, but rather than deal with that expense and complexity, I buy the RO (reverse osmosis) water from the machine at the grocery store for $ .33 per gallon.

I suppose we'd eventually recoup the cost of a filtration system, but it would take quite a while, and I try to employ the K.I.S.S. principle wherever I can. Same way with all my brewing: ferment in plastic buckets, mash in a converted cooler, boil in a cheap SS pot, bottle in plain 12 oz. longnecks. People are constantly trying to evangelize on this forum to go to keggles, RIMS, HERMS, kegerators, etc. Don't need that stuff, and what I use makes great beer, so I don't want it.

Cleaning and sanitizing- same principle. I clean mostly with Dawn dishwashing liquid & where necessary, with PBW. Bottle cleaning can be elimiinated after delabeling with a good PBW soak by rinsing each bottle thoroughly at the time the beer is poured. Sanitizing can be done easily and cheaply with Star San. Some people are put off by the high price of the Star San concentrate, but when mixed according to directions and sprayed on with a spray bottle where possible, it's extremely cheap.
 

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