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Corey_James

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I have been thinking about this lately: I want to get something else for my brewery, but what. I have narrowed it down to 3 items of what I want to get. The first is a grain mill, next is pump and then a refractometer. Just looking for some answers from others on which order should I purchase these items. Any answers will be appreciated.

Corey
 
A grain mill. It's a pretty basic item for an AG brewer. It may also allow you to buy your base grains in bulk.

What do plan on doing with the pump?

As long as you have a hydrometer, a refractometer is just a luxury.
 
I think the grain mill and refractometer are more important than the pump. The first two will help you make better beer, the pump easier beer.

For me, I got the refractometer before I got the grain mill. If you don't plan on buying bulk, and have a good supplier who grinds the grains for you, and like their crush, then I'd get the refractometer first, and mill second.

You can't go wrong with either, it's just a matter of what move you want to make first.
 
As long as you have a hydrometer, a refractometer is just a luxury.

I don't agree. A refractometer allows almost minute adjustments between the preboil and pre pitching phases of brewing. You don't have to allow sample to cool forever, so you can quickly take multiple readings. I take more readings now that I do AG with a refractometer, then when I just had my hydrometer and was doing Ag, and feel my process is more dialed in and beer is better because of it.
 
You don't have to allow sample to cool forever, so you can quickly take multiple readings.

which is why it really is just a luxury. a very nice luxury, though....

grain mill is the gift that keeps on giving, as it really allows you to buy in bulk and save some money.
 
All depends on your situation. My LHBS is also a brewery so their crush is great. If it was me it would go : Pump, refractometer, and then mill
 
I considered buying grain in bulk and get a grain mill, but I quickly realized it was not something that fits my need:

* I brew different styles of beer, using different base grain. I do not want to store 50# of each.
* On HBT, I see a lot of people saying that buying in bulk is worth it, but I was not able to find those "great deals" that makes it worth it. I cannot find good prices locally, and shipping is a deal breaker when buying online. No way to justify the expense of the mill like this.
* Finally, you will have to brew a lot to get some return after investing in a mill. The 5 gallons every 3 or 4 weeks I brew are not enough.

So for now, I still buy everything a recipe at a time, already crushed.

To go back to the initial question, I would recommend the refractometer. It is really useful to help reach the target OG. I know that if I am far from it, I can stir like crazy and mash for a little bit longer in order to get my numbers.

By the way, I thnik Bobby_m has the best deal around on a refractometer. I got mine from AHS, but saw later the deal on Bobby_m's website. It looks like they are identical.
 
I think the mill is the best answer at this point. Once you have a mill, you can buy grain in bulk and the cost goes down, a lot. Even if you didn't buy in bulk, you can keep uncrushed grain fresher longer, and you can adjust the crush to what YOU want, not what the store wants.

Then again, a refractometer is cheaper, and can make the brewday faster by allowing you to adjust on the fly faster, as Revvy said. But it won't really save you money, or improve your efficiency.
 
I see most people are saying either refractometer or mill. Any ideas on which one? I have seen 2 roller and 3 roller, but the 3 roller is just a little more. If I were to order a mill, it would have to be online. I have LHBS within 3 miles of miles house and half way between home and work. I get all my grain supplies from there and they have a pretty consistant crush. My only reason for a pump is I am tired of lifting my HLT full of hot water above my head so that I can fly sparge.
 
A Barley Crusher comes with all the "accessories" and really is by far the best value on a mill.

Do you belong to a homebrew club or are you otherwise able to participate in bulk-grain group buys? These are by far the cheapest ways to source grain... I pay less than 50¢ per pound for some of my base grains. Having control of the crush and being able to tweak it and experiment is also nice.

Pumps are great too though, especially if you have a counterflow or plate chiller.

Now... I'm probably in the minority on this one, but I'm not a fan of analog refractometers, which is what most people use. For around $100, you can get yourself a digital bench refractometer, and not have to deal with most of the gripes people have with the little optical models.
 
I have LHBS within 3 miles of miles house and half way between home and work. I get all my grain supplies from there and they have a pretty consistant crush. My only reason for a pump is I am tired of lifting my HLT full of hot water above my head so that I can fly sparge.

I think you answered your original post. Sounds like you need a pump... The problem with asking a question about what to purchase is that there are many different circumstances. For me if everything broke down at the same time I would replace my mill first, my refractometer second, and my pump third. But I buy grain in bulk, I use the refractometer the most but could get by with my hydrometer, I like my pump but could get by with my auto siphon.. If I had to lift a HLT full of hot water I would get a pump first
 
Personally, I have little need for a mill. My LHBS has a self-service mill, so I can double-crush wheat, rye, and deeply roasted grains. Like mperceau, I brew with a half a dozen different base malts, so buying by the sack makes little sense for me.

OTOH, I have a refractometer and use it several times per brew day.

Your own situation will dictate which will pay you greater dividends.
 
944play said:
Personally, I have little need for a mill. My LHBS has a self-service mill, so I can double-crush wheat, rye, and deeply roasted grains. Like mperceau, I brew with a half a dozen different base malts, so buying by the sack makes little sense for me.

I do too. I have a full sack of 2-row, Pilsner malt, Pale Wheat,and Marris Otter (and split a sack of both Munich and Vienna with a club member). That's 6 base grains, although 5 sacks' worth.

And despite brewing just 5gal batches, it's very worth it to me.

With all these grains costing me between $20-30 for a 55lb sack, it is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper. I got a bunch of 5gal food grade buckets (from a winemaking friend-of-a-friend), with perfectly moisture-tight and air-tight gamma seal lids (basically, an inexpensive Vittles Vault). With this storage system (an exact copy of how Kal does it), crushed grain can last at least a couple years without any noticeable staling, which is precisely why almost *anybody* can make this work. Also borrowed from Kal, I put unmilled specialty grains I get from my LHBS in large ZipLoc bags (strictly for organization), and have several more buckets filled with these.

Each bucket can store half a sack. So right now I have a dozen such buckets. The lids also give them a great deal of stacking strength, and so they could be stored at least four-high... and almost certainly higher. But I choose to stack them against a wall in my cold room three-high right now. I could go up to 18 buckets with this height without going higher, and since the buckets are exactly 12" at the widest part, it's easy to calculate:

Basically, my grain (up to 9 sacks) takes up a 3' x 3' (6 sq ft) of floorspace right now, which is really nothing, especially since placement is unimportant. And I could really fit everything into half the space - a 3' by 1' footprint - if I wanted to stack them four-high instead.

So really, brewing with a half-dozen base grains doesn't automatically mean it makes no sense. Proper storage allows them to last MORE than long enough, even if you do 5gal batches like I do. And if there's one or two base grains that you wouldn't be able to use a whole sack even within that timeframe, it would make more sense to source it like a specialty grain anyways - and some shops, like my LHBS for instance, even provide a price break for larger amounts such as 5lbs, which creates even more incentive. Heck, I now buy *almost* ALL of my specialty grains like that, using the balance to build up my own inventory. It's fantastic being able to have everything on hand already, but it's by no means a requirement for grain mills to be worth it. And specialty grains last EVEN LONGER - generally, the darker the grain, the longer it will keep.

And in addition to grains keeping for a VERY long time, a good storage solution can also allow it to take up remarkably little space. So the only two issues that could conceivably result from using a bunch of different base grains, are clearly not even legitimate issues for most people, assuming that a) they brew more than just a single 5gal batch every couple months, and b) they don't live in a tiny studio apartment or something where 3 square feet is out of the question - even though you'd need a fair portion of that just to keep the crushed grains until brew day, not to mention the fact that one would have a hell of a time brewing at all - LET ALONE *ALL-GRAIN* - in a home with so little spare space.
 
I see most people are saying either refractometer or mill. Any ideas on which one? I have seen 2 roller and 3 roller, but the 3 roller is just a little more. If I were to order a mill, it would have to be online. I have LHBS within 3 miles of miles house and half way between home and work. I get all my grain supplies from there and they have a pretty consistant crush. My only reason for a pump is I am tired of lifting my HLT full of hot water above my head so that I can fly sparge.

It sounds like then a pump is top of the list for you.
 
With all these grains costing me between $20-30 for a 55lb sack, it is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper.

[....]

b) they don't live in a tiny studio apartment or something where 3 square feet is out of the question - even though you'd need a fair portion of that just to keep the crushed grains until brew day, not to mention the fact that one would have a hell of a time brewing at all - LET ALONE *ALL-GRAIN* - in a home with so little spare space.

As I said, I do not know where to get grains at $30 a sack.
And for the space, I do not live in a tiny studio, but I do not have that much space either, because of all the brewing equipment that I already have :)

Yes of course if I was to get rid of my 15.5 gallon pot, a couple of kegs, a fermenter, a keezer, and a washing machine (what?), and a couple of hundred of bottles, I could have a dozen of buckets full of grain. Just I could not brew or wash my clothes anymore .... Irony left aside, you can brew all grain without living in a mansion.

cheers
 
Thanks for all the input. With all the input everyone gave me, I think what will happen is I will end up buying a mill and pump here soon and then asking my kids for a refractometer for Christmas. I do not know if I could get bulk grain as cheap as $.50/lb, but I have a couple of friends that just opened a brewery by me and I could ask what they normally pay. I realize that it might be easier to just talk to my LHBS as see what discounts they give for bulk grain.
 
Thanks for all the input. With all the input everyone gave me, I think what will happen is I will end up buying a mill and pump here soon and then asking my kids for a refractometer for Christmas. I do not know if I could get bulk grain as cheap as $.50/lb, but I have a couple of friends that just opened a brewery by me and I could ask what they normally pay. I realize that it might be easier to just talk to my LHBS as see what discounts they give for bulk grain.

You need to look on here, and also through any of your local homebrewing clubs for bulk buys. For example on here, my group, the Michigan Mashers do a bulk grain buy twice a year. A sack of 2-row endus up being about 31 bucks. The Chicago folks on here do group buys as well, as does I think Portland. If you don't see any threads in this main area about it, click on the word "groups" and then search for california, or your area and see if there's a regional subgroup and look at the postings in that part of the forum for mention of group buys.
 
Future post:

"I have great crush efficiency with my new mill, but unfortunately I can't brew due to being in the burn ward at local hospital."
 
I will talk to my club as I am getting more involved with them. The club I belong to has had 6 members become professional brewers since its start 20 years ago. As for the rest, how about them Lions, and Tigers and Wings oh my!!! I was born in Grand Rapids, but after highschool joined the Navy and travel the world.
 
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