What might be happening with this fermentation?

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Redpiper

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I racked a red ale to secondary yesterday and pitched a DIPA on top - OG of 1.094. Yeast was US-05. I saw no visible signs of fermentation this am, and was expecting a big one, so I swirled the bucket. Immediately there was a pretty strong exhalation of CO2 which continued for about 4 minutes. Then nothing again.

So, I know fermentation is happening, but I'm curious about what might be going on, just from a learning standpoint. This is the first time I've reused a yeast cake. Does the fermentation start at the bottom? Could the CO2, for now, just be stuck below the thick wort? If so, does this mean at some point there will be a mini-explosion when it finally releases? Would it be wise to swirl the bucket some more to help release it?

I'm going out of town until tomorrow night. Unless I hear something from some of you more experienced brewers I'm going to leave it alone. Thanks.
 
I dumped a bottle of water on the yeast, also poured the wort through a grain bag and squeezed the juice out, then more water and stirred with a paddle. I would think that would be plenty of air. I didn't scrape the bottom of the bucket and stir up the cake I guess, but still wouldn't this be enough?
 
What temp is your room? How long was the yeast in the primary before you pitched this beer onto it?

Last time I pitched onto a yeast cake - it started fermenting within an hour - it was crazy.
 
Room is 68-70. The original pitching was last Sunday, so less than a year old.

Like I said, swirling the bucket produced results so something is going on, it's just not what I expected. I've heard it should be pretty violent and fast. Can swirling the bucket hurt anything?
 
Swirling won't hurt, if the previous beer was a much lower OG you may have shocked the yeast a bit. I'm at a loss as you are, I would have expected you'd pouring foam out the top by now.
 
It sounds like you're caring more about trying to make a stupid airlock bubble than you actually care about fermentation.....have you actually taken a reading?

And why did you rack a beer, especially one at 1.094 to secondary, taking it off the yeast most apt to ferment the beer, if you didn't think the beer is fermenting?????

And shaking it vigorously if it's fermented is asking for oxidyzing the beer.

How do you really know what your beer is doing?????

Stop and go bubbles means......................Stop and go bubbles, NOT that anything is wrong with fermentation.

Airlock bubbling (or lack) and fermentation are not the same thing. You have to separate that from your mindset. Airlock bubbling can be a sign of fermentation, but not a good one, because the airlock will often blip or not blip for various other reasons...so it is a tenuous connection at best.

If your airlock was bubbling and stopped---It doesn't mean fermentation has stopped.

If you airlock isn't bubbling, it doesn't mean your fermentation hasn't started....

If your airlock starts bubbling, it really doesn't matter.

If your airlock NEVER bubbles, it doesn't mean anything is wrong or right.

Your airlock is not a fermentation gauge, it is a VALVE to release excess co2. If it bubbles it is because it needs to, if it doesn't, it just means it doesn't need too...


Your HYDROMETER is the only BEST indicator of fermentation activity. Nothing else is accurate or consistent...

Unless you take a gravity reading you don't know what's really going on, not by airlock bubbling or by krausen formation. Neither of those signs are effective, they don't tell you exactly where on the fermentation process you are.

The amount of krausen can vary for whatever reason, it can come quick and depart quickly or it can linger long after fermentation is complete, and it all be normal.

And airlocks sometimes bubble or they don't. And airlock is a valve, a vent to release excess co2...NOT a fermentation gauge. It's important to make that distinction, or you'll be panicking everytime a an airlock doesn't bubble, or stops bubbling.

Fermentation is not always "dynamic," just because you don't SEE anything happening, doesn't mean that any-thing's wrong,, and also doesn't mean that the yeast are still not working diligently away, doing what they've been doing for over 4,000 years.

That's why you need to take a gravity reading to know how your fermentation is going, NOT go by airlocks, or size of krausen, or a calendar, the horoscope or the phases of the moon (those things in my mind are equally accurate). :rolleyes:

The most important tool you can use is a hydrometer. It's the only way you will truly know when your beer is ready...airlock bubbles and other things are faulty.

The only way to truly know what is going on in your fermenter is with your hydrometer. Like I said here in my blog, which I encourage you to read, Think evaluation before action you sure as HELL wouldn't want a doctor to start cutting on you unless he used the proper diagnostic instuments like x-rays first, right? You wouldn't want him to just take a look in your eyes briefly and say "I'm cutting into your chest first thing in the morning." You would want them to use the right diagnostic tools before the slice and dice, right? You'd cry malpractice, I would hope, if they didn't say they were sending you for an MRI and other things before going in....

Fast fermentations/slow fermentations/big krausens/small krausens/bubbles starting and stopping, in the long run is really irrevelent....just that you have fermentation. Yeast don't normal normally die/stop fermenting/get tired, that's a premise new brewers believe, but it's not the truth. Yeast have been doing this for 4,000 years, and know how to ferment the beer, they WANT to ferment the beer, it's their entire purpose in life is to eat sugar, peer alcohol and fart co2 (along with some major screwing during the reproductive phase) especially modern 21st century yeast.

All those other things are really just superficial to the purpose at hand, if your yeast took off, unless you let the temp go down near 50, your yeast is still working happily away, despite what the superficial signs like airlock may indicate.
 
Revvy, think you misread his post. He racked a red ale to secondary (no mention of where that ale was gravity wise) and put a huge DIPA on the yeast cake of that with the 1.094 OG. Yes, a hydrometer will tell if that has started fermenting, but I'd expect it to be pretty obvious given the OG and the fact that he put it on an established yeast cake.
 
Woah Revvy, yes you did misread my post and I use my hydrometer! I've read many of yours and other posts to know that yeast take care of themselves for the most part.

Racked the red ale to secondary - it had reached its target FG.

Put the DIPA on to the old yeast. Expected violent fermentation and didn't see it. First time I've reused yeast. Was just wondering what might be happening - particularly if CO2 might be building up down below the wort, if swirling might release it and ease a violent outburst later.

Again, I was trying to be clear that I'm sure fermentation is happening, but it wasn't happening as I expected. Just trying to learn more about the process.
 
patience!!!, You have all the vitals i.e. yeast, wort and a good enviro. Relax and have a homerew, Ive had the same thing happen and it all worked out. Reused yeast acts completely different than fresh stuff.
 
I would expect you will start to see a krausen by tonight or tomorrow. If it goes to day 3 or 4 without a krausen, then I would start to worry about it.
 
Update. Checked gravity today - figured 72 hours was about right to see if anything was happening. Still no visible signs of fermenting, but am at the target FG mark.

So there you have it - despite the expectations of a big ferment, caution from LHBS about blow off, etc., the yeast quietly took care of a fairly big beer. Everyone I talked to about reusing yeast said to expect something different...but that doesn't mean that's what happens. I expected to see some progress, but frankly was surprised to find it already done.

Thought I'd post the end result because so many posts I search out here don't have the results from the OP.
 
Update. Checked gravity today - figured 72 hours was about right to see if anything was happening. Still no visible signs of fermenting, but am at the target FG mark.

Sounds about right. Watch out for the "You can't ferment a beer in one week!" flamers. 90% of my beers are done in 3-4 days also. 3 more days to clean it up and you are good to go.:mug:
 
Sounds about right. Watch out for the "You can't ferment a beer in one week!" flamers. 90% of my beers are done in 3-4 days also. 3 more days to clean it up and you are good to go.:mug:

Are you bottling or kegging at 7 days if your Hydro says its done?
 
Are you bottling or kegging at 7 days if your Hydro says its done?

I'm usually a little more lazy with it and let it sit 10-14 days or until I get a chance to keg it up. I know with the yeasts I use and my pitching rate/oxygenation/temperature for fermentation, my beers are at FG within 3-4 days. I could keg most of them up at day 7-8 if I wanted to, but I like to drink beer sometimes more than I like to work on it. :mug:
 
"I like to drink beer sometimes more than I like to work on it." Me too, im going to change things up around my house, Im going to get a stable FG then give a little time to clear then keg or bottle. Im in no hurry but if I dont detect a noticeable difference by not going a full month or so Im not waiting.
 
im going to change things up around my house, Im going to get a stable FG then give a little time to clear then keg or bottle. Im in no hurry but if I dont detect a noticeable difference by not going a full month or so Im not waiting.

No reason to go a month with ales. What yeast do you usually use? I have mainly switched over to english strains around my brewery. They finish up really fast and drop nice and clear. Just make sure you are really paying attention to pitching the right amount of yeast, oxygenating, and keeping it at the right temperature. Do you have temp control?
 
Im mostly using kolsch with starters right now, temp control is good for another month or so here the I have to come up with a way to cool. I haven't tried any English stains yet but am interested.

OP, didnt mean to hijack your thread. maybe we should start a new topic?
 
Did a cervesa and currently a carmel amber. It is a dirty yeast isnt it.
 
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