What makes a homebrewer advanced?

[5B-brewing]

A friend referred to me as an "advanced" homebrewer the other day. It got me thinking. Even though I've been brewing for more than 10 years, the last year and a half doing all-grain, taught others to brew, and I am starting to formulate my own recipes, I consider myself an intermediate.

There are definitely some on here that obviously deserve the label of "advanced expert." Where is that line? What determines the lines between beginner, intermediate, and advance homebrewer? (For myself, I won't even come close to considering myself advanced until I can understand water chemistry.)

I guess an even more important question is: Does it matter? As long as we are making good beer that we ourselves like to drink, do labels mean anything?

 

[Denny]

It doesn't matter to me. I've brewed 431 batches, given seminars, written magazine articles.....many would consider me advanced. I consider myself a homebrewer just like everyone else.

 

[ArtimusBeerimus]

This. Without... you know... all the fancy credentials.

 

[duboman]

IMO, labels don't really mean much if you enjoy the hobby and your product.

That being said my personal take is an advanced homebrewer is one that fully understand all aspects of the science behind the production of beer from water chemistry to diastatic properties of grain and microbiology of yeast and I am not one of them but learning s l o w l y................

 

[unionrdr]

Good point. Guess I can give it a shot. Advanced brewer to me would be one that understands all aspects of brewing well enough to get great beer everytime & in less time than us average brewers.
I'm no beginner,but I'm not sure I'd even say I'm intermediate either. Even though I'll be doing my 3rd partial mash next week. C'mon Fed-Ex from midwest!! At this point,I honestly have to say that one thing a good brewer should have is imagineering skills. That ability to leap beyond the normal confines of home brewing to come up with your own version of a style you enjoy. Something truely your own. I also try to learn as much as I canabout every aspect of every brew. Even if that's just observational,which is part of scientific investigation. Then put it in your notes to improve your brewday next time.
It's this collection of knowledge over time that makes an advanced brewer. Just depends on how fast you learn & what you can spend on this hobby. Can't wait till the 16th to crack my 2nd PM pale ale. It's my own recipe. And a happy accident at that. It'll get me one step closer to my ale that thinks it's a light lager I named "Hopped & Confused". Version 2 will be next weekend maybe.

 

[5B-brewing]

Yeast is definitely another advanced subject I want to learn about. I do starters, but harvesting/propagating yeast and long term storage are on my "to learn" list.

 

[Komodo]

I'd say it's when you stop freaking out and start relaxing and having a homebrew.

 

[TyTanium]

Advanced is the guy who's beer is better than yours.

That is, never attainable for yourself, but something that drives you toward perfection but you never quite achieve. And if you consider yourself to have achieved that, we have a different word for that...EAC.

 

[Waynep005]

I think an advanced homebrewer is the brewer that has no problem sharing one of his or her brews with anyone no mater how well they know the person.

 

[OldWorld]

An advanced home brewer is somebody who can double decoction mash an authentic really good pilsner...Any jerk-o can make a pale or ipa.

 

[Denny]

An advanced home brewer is somebody who can double decoction mash an authentic really good pilsner...Any jerk-o can make a pale or ipa.

A truly advanced brewer has brewed enough to recognize the myth of decotion....

 

[OldWorld]

Denny...most of the old world Pilsners still do a deoction. Is it because europeans are stubborn luddites? No...it is because they care about making the beer taste right.

You can go ahead and use highly efficient 2 row to make a pilsner style. But less modified grains mashed with more time and love always seem to produce a crisper, cereal like finish that can't be done if you rush it.

 

[ktblunden]

Advanced is the guy who's beer is better than yours.

That is, never attainable for yourself, but something that drives you toward perfection but you never quite achieve. And if you consider yourself to have achieved that, we have a different word for that...EAC.

I like this definition. Gotta keep striving to get better.

 

[Denny]

Denny...most of the old world Pilsners still do a deoction. Is it because europeans are stubborn luddites? No...it is because they care about making the beer taste right.

You can go ahead and use highly efficient 2 row to make a pilsner style. But less modified grains mashed with more time and love always seem to produce a crisper, cereal like finish that can't be done if you rush it.

It's nearly impossible to find undermodified malt. In addition, tests I've done show that most people can't identify or don't have a preference for decocted beers. I use Best pils malt with a single infusion to make great pilsners. If anyone wants to do a decoction, be my guest. But I don't feel you shuld necessarily expect a superior beer.

 

[PhelanKA7]

An advanced homebrewer is someone drawing social security and older than me.

 

[Yooper]

An advanced home brewer is somebody who can double decoction mash an authentic really good pilsner...Any jerk-o can make a pale or ipa.

Well, anybody that can follow instructions can do a double decoction. It's simple calculations. And anybody who can brew an ale can brew a lager. Making a great IPA isn't any easier, or harder, than a great German or Bohemian pilsner.

I think "advanced brewing" is something I'll never do and I'll never consider myself "advanced".

I'm always trying to learn or improve something, from newer malt varieties to hops growing, to water chemistry.

I mean, you can always make a BoPils with RO water (with a triple decoction if you want), and then make the same beer with a bit of calcium chloride added to it, and have a different beer. And then trying to decide which is more authentic, or which is preferable can be a bit of a learning experience in itself.

I learn something new all the time, so at this rate I'll never be "advanced"!

 

[5B-brewing]

TyTanium- I like that definition. And I now know what EAC stands for! Does that make me one of the cool kids?

 

[PhelanKA7]

Well, anybody that can follow instructions can do a double decoction. It's simple calculations. And anybody who can brew an ale can brew a lager. Making a great IPA isn't any easier, or harder, than a great German or Bohemian pilsner.

I think "advanced brewing" is something I'll never do and I'll never consider myself "advanced".

I'm always trying to learn or improve something, from newer malt varieties to hops growing, to water chemistry.

I mean, you can always make a BoPils with RO water (with a triple decoction if you want), and then make the same beer with a bit of calcium chloride added to it, and have a different beer. And then trying to decide which is more authentic, or which is preferable can be a bit of a learning experience in itself.

I learn something new all the time, so at this rate I'll never be "advanced"!

"Advancing" not "advanced", right?

 

[Yooper]

You know what's funny? I consider Denny an expert, and I know others do too. I have watched podcasts with Denny and other brewing gurus, and respect and listen to what they say. I don't always agree with Denny (and we've "argued" over several issues including decoctions and FWH!) but I totally respect the science behind what he says. I also like the contributions people like Denny have given to us- working with the AHA, making batch sparging quick and easy for brewers, sharing experiences.

I think that's what is great about homebrewers- pretty open and we can learn a lot from each other.

 

[Denny]

Awwwww, you're too kind!

 

[tjpfeister]

I thought advanced means to have won more forum arguments than your peers and thus winning all the internets.

LuLz, but no +1 to "advanced" being a relative term and not something that you can apply to yourself.

 

[saazall]

Advanced is when:
Your best friend who would not BS you tells you that this was the best beer he has ever tasted
SWMBO stops drinking BMC light and starts draining your stash
When you stop buying bling for your car and you start saving for that conical
When you turn the front closet into a fermentation chamber
When you start building recipes that don't have 12 different grains
When you look forward to getting up early on Saturday
When you don't feel like a noob anymore.

Advanced is a state of mind. You'll know it. But you will always keep getting better and gaining knowledge.

I'm almost 250 batches in and I am still learning about advanced techniques.

 

[liquiditynerd]

Advanced is when:
Your best friend who would not BS you tells you that this was the best beer he has ever tasted
SWMBO stops drinking BMC light and starts draining your stash
When you stop buying bling for your car and you start saving for that conical
When you turn the front closet into a fermentation chamber
When you start building recipes that don't have 12 different grains
When you look forward to getting up early on Saturday
When you don't feel like a noob anymore.

Advanced is a state of mind. You'll know it. But you will always keep getting better and gaining knowledge.

I'm almost 250 batches in and I am still learning about advanced techniques.

Damn, I'm just an over equipped newb. I knew it.

 

[pdxal]

It doesn't matter to me. I've brewed 431 batches, given seminars, written magazine articles.....many would consider me advanced. I consider myself a homebrewer just like everyone else.

Well put, Denny.

 

[mattd2]

I'll stick my $0.02 in, I think "advanced" is where you know what you are doings as well as why you are doing it adn what effect it will have prior to tasting the result.
As someone said most can follow a recipe to do a tripple deco brew or produce an amazing IIPA, and they can go on to produce 200+ batches/15 years worth of fantastic beer. But it takes an advanced brewer to know that by using this combination of malts, hops, minerals, temperature, etc. I would expect to have a beer that taste...
It is the knowledge that makes you advanced/expert not the time (although generally time -> experience -> knowledge)
Wait thinking about that I would correct that to:
An advance brewer knows why to do certian things,
An expert brewer can predict the results of certain things

 

[norsk]

It doesn't matter to me. I've brewed 431 batches, given seminars, written magazine articles.....many would consider me advanced. I consider myself a homebrewer just like everyone else.

What he said... minus 300 batches, seminars and magazine articles...

The more I think I have become "advanced"... the more I realize how much I don't know....

 

[Komodo]

The more I think I have become "advanced"... the more I realize how much I don't know....

Nice one.

 

[watersr]

I am think its pretty easy. If you consider yourself advanced, you're probably not. If everyone except you think your advanced, you're getting close.

 

[watersr]

I am think? How the hell did I manage that?

 

[5B-brewing]

I am think its pretty easy. If you consider yourself advanced, you're probably not. If everyone except you think your advanced, you're getting close.

Very Zen, but I agree.