What is your reaction when you discover a 'local' beer is actually contract brewed?

[snowveil]

Most of the topics have really been touched upon already...attitude, honesty, etc.

I think the biggest thing for me is that if a local brewery gets an unexpected burst of expansion then contract brewing is the best way to handle it. Lancaster Brewing Co here in southern PA was pretty small time until they got a contract with semi-recently built baseball stadium. All of a sudden they've now got this huge unexpected demand and no way to fill it. They are located in the city, where do they expand? Do they shut down the restaurant and just brew for the stadium? Of course not. Allow your excess demand to flow over to someone with the capacity to brew your recipe to accommodate this demand. If the demand continues consistently then building another brewery or expanding your existing one would prove beneficial, but with the finicky tastes of the average consumer you really don't know what might be in store for the next 5 years. Contract brewing is a great way for a small brewery to get into the game without a huge cost up front....as long as the recipes are original and (as others have said) they're honest about it, I think it's not only "okay," but wise.

 

[Revvy]

BTW, I was only referring to breweries, not brewpubs, which is clearly odd if they don't make their own beer.

Interesting thread for me, I thought for sure there would be a groundswell of support for not contracting, but clearly not the case.

I think most of us who have been part of "beer culture" awhile are really not surprised by it. We know beer history, we understand the Jim Koch started out using a contract brewery. And that Brooklyn Brewery still does. Heck even a couple folks on here who have "gone pro" have started with them.

It's a lot more above board then a lot of new brewers/beer geeks might believe. I think a lot of newer "craft beer geeks" see thing more dramatically than folks who've been around awhile do. They see "the big bad corporate monster that is BMC," or in your case contract breweries as something "bad." When in reality, it IS reality.

It's the same thing with the fact that not every beer geek HATES bmc or thinks the old BS chestnut that "Anheisur Bush started to use adjuncts in their beers to cut cost and foist an inferior product on the people."

Once you start delving into beer and beer history, especially the history of beer in the US, and you read Maureen Ogle's "Ambitious Brew: The Story of American Beer." You get more real about stuff like that and it doesn't really bug you. Some people will drink craft beers, some folks will prefer bud light...and neither folk is, is dumb, or wrong, or better than the other, for what they chose to drink. Bud light's not going anywhere, despite the sales lost to craft beer every year. Craft beer's been around pretty much since the day I turned legal 24 years ago, by now there is not one beer drinker on the planet, or at least not North America, who doesn't see a ton of other beers on the shelves next to their beloved Bud Light, and many BMC folks do try those other beers, just like they may try our homebeers, and STILL choose to stay with what the know best. They have a choice. And they make it everyday. Just like we do.

 

[Homercidal]

Meh. I know Sargeants Brewing Company has Michigan Brewing Company brew their beer. It's a plain American Lager. Like, terribly plain lager IMO. MBC contract brews lots of beer. I think their doing good with Kid Rock's American Bad Ass Beer though. (Let's not tangent onto that subject though...)

I have no idea how much recipe formulation and decision making went into Sargeants by the veterans who started the project.

 

[Revvy]

Meh. I know Sargeants Brewing Company has Michigan Brewing Company brew their beer. It's a plain American Lager. Like, terribly plain lager IMO. MBC contract brews lots of beer. I think their doing good with Kid Rock's American Bad Ass Beer though. (Let's not tangent onto that subject though...)

I have no idea how much recipe formulation and decision making went into Sargeants by the veterans who started the project.

Yeah, Kid rock is being brewed by MBC.

It's great that he went local for it, even though I don't think it's a beer I'm interested in.

 

[munche]

Found a "brewpub" in Cadillac and called to see what they had. I asked what type of brewing system they used and they said they don't brew there. They have it contracted by (I think) Bells.

Ok, so if you are NOT brewing ONSITE, you are not a brewpub. You may have a signature beer, but you are not a brewpub.

*Caveat: Unless you have your wort made somewhere else and ferment onsite. However, I doubt that was the case. I have not been there.

What about places like BJs and Karl Strauss which have all their own beer, but are brewed at a central location and shipped to the restaurant/pub?

 

[AmandaK]

Schlafly out of St. Louis is actually partially contract brewed up in Wisconsin. They've out grown there two breweries in the area and had to keep up with demand.

Schlafly is still my favorite brewery, by far. The people there are great. I've personally met the two head brewers and gardener. All are amazing people and will take the time to help a homebrewer out with questions.

So again, it comes down to the attitude of the people who work there.

 

[samc]

I am all for buying local. If it turns out it's not local then it loses points with me. There are a lot of great beers so I would just move on to something else.

 

[Airborneguy]

I think one thing that affects my belief on this is that the Matt Brewery is in NY and it is one of the biggest contract breweries around. I believe that they are the ones who make Brooklyn and used to make Sam Adams. Because I have experience with their Saranac brand, and how good some of their beers are, I don't see why one would shun contract brewed beer.

Revvy, I fully agree with you about the new beer geeks. But I think it's not so much that they are new, its that they think being a beer geek somehow makes them better than the average beer drinker who drinks BMC. Me personally, my favorite summer beer is either a kolsch or original Budweiser. I never understood all of the BMC hate.

They make beer; no one should hate them.

 

[snowveil]

My "bmc hate" stems more from their sales tactics than from their product. Homebrewers I think know better than most that the difficulty that goes into creating that "BMC swill" is at a level that most of us can never dream to approach. There's no room for off flavors, there's no "aging out," there's no "I missed my numbers."

There's a market for the product, no doubt. There's also market for McDonalds. BMC knows they're not making beers that are complex or flavorful. They make a crsip, refreshing beverage that appeals to a large audience.

I take more issue with deliberately misinforming the public by using catchphrases like "frost brewed" or "triple hops brewed" or "taste the rockies" than with the flavor of the beers. For god's sake...you've already got half-naked women on your commercials, do you need to assume we're all idiots too?

 

[krebs119]

I take more issue with deliberately misinforming the public by using catchphrases like "frost brewed" or "triple hops brewed" or "taste the rockies" than with the flavor of the beers. For god's sake...you've already got half-naked women on your commercials, do you need to assume we're all idiots too?

couldn't agree more. Not that I mind the half naked women, but I hate the quotes that they have. The new vortex bottle that helps "unleash the triple hops brewed taste" is ridiculous. The one that annoys me the most though is how coors is "the coldest tasting beer in America." Can someone explain to me what "cold" tastes like?

It gets me when I'm hanging out with a few BMC drinkers and they'll get in an argument about which ever brand they are loyal to, and their arguments are based off of the commercials on tv. "Dude, miller is better than coors - it has more hops! it's triple hops brewed!" Gah....

 

[Hannable1975]

don't care, I buy beer because it tastes good. I don't care where it's from. Osama bin laden could brew it and if it was a great beer and reasonably priced I would buy 100 cases.

Awesomely honest and actually kinda how I feel too.

 

[JaimeTheLimey]

OP: I see your point and personally I would tend to shy away from someone who was really trying to push a product that was falsely represented. (unless it was some seriously awesome brew. My loyalty can be bought in some respects)
On the other hand, I have a pizza place in town that has their beer made by Firestone. They don't really advertise it, but they don't keep it a secret either. The upside? They have Firestone brews on tap that you can't get anywhere else. Sometimes it's even stuff you can't get at the Firestone taproom like Double Jack IPA.

 

[snazzy]

I'm with those of you who buy local because it is local.

I will pass on a better tasting beer to drink local most of the time. This does not mean I don't ever buy something from another state or even country. I buy my cheap beer from the closest place possible and try to grab Indiana brews when possible.

It is an economic thing with me. The closer my money stays the better of my job and local economy are. With beer it is great because there are plenty brewed close. Other things like my work boots for example I have to spread out to wisconsin. I have turned in to quite a tag reader lately.

I do understand why the contract brew but would be irked if it was bud or miller getting the cash. Still would prefer small private owned beer.

 

[Zamial]

Well, I will tell you a little story...

There is a restaurant in my area that serves some AWSOME authentic German cooking. No lie, this stuff is so good my uncle who lived in Germany was shocked at how authentic and good it was...I think he actually had a flash back while eating the food...

They advertise that they are a brew pub and have some decent brews. I actually looked the other way on the off flavors and that the flavor was "thin/watery" because the food was so good and it was a "brew pub"...not to mention the flogging these liters gave my wallet...

Well one day, after diner I explain to the waitress that I am a home brewer and I would really like a brewery tour. She looks at me like a deer in the headlights...So I ask a few other questions that her BEST answer to was, "Ummm, Let me ask the owner..."

She disappears for no less than 15 minutes and comes back with what I assume to be one of the owners. They explain that they contract out the beer to a "Major brewery in a different city" and that they do not have a "private brewery to tour." They continue to explain that I CAN arrange a brewery tour and meet the brew master, that they assure me all the beer that is "theirs" is directly brewed by and supervised by this person.

I thank them for the info. and leave EXTREMELY disappointed.

Fast forward a few months later and I find out their "brew master" is a member of the local brew club/community and that he supplied the recipe to the brewery and that is it! He does not work at/for the brewery EVER!

I still go to this place from time to time for food but I will NEVER order any of the "house beers" again. I tell this story to everyone I take to this place and ask them to NOT order the house beer either as a way to protest the shady practices. I feel as I have been deceived and flat out lied to.

BTW Please do not ask me to disclose the businesses name or location because I really do not wish to hurt their business. I am really disheartened by the entire thing...

 

[Whut]

don't care, I buy beer because it tastes good. I don't care where it's from. Osama bin laden could brew it and if it was a great beer and reasonably priced I would buy 100 cases.

So if the beer is good, I drink it, if it's ****e, I don't, it's that simple. I usually don't give a flying frig if it is brewed onsite or a contract brewery, heck, wasn't Sierra Nevada or Sam Adam's contract brewed initially?

What these guys said, it's beer. If I like it I buy it. Heck I paid $88 or so for a 1/6 bbl of Papago Brewings Orange Blossom which is delicious. And guess what, they don't brew it!

All this of course is just my humble opinion. As you all were.

 

[HoppyMaltPoet]

I have a local brewery here on Long Island (Blue Point) that contract brews their bottled beer. They both taste different. You drink the tap beer compared to the bottled beer and they taste like 2 different beers. But they are both good and I enjoy drinking it either way.

 

[munche]

I will add that I drink what's good, period. I think it's kind of a funny notion to be adverse to a beer because it's from, say, another state, or hell, another city. "Wait, this beer is brewed in UPSTATE New York and not NYC? Well, I'll never drink it again!"

Maybe I'd feel different if my favorite beer was being outsourced to China or something, but finding out somewhere has a house beer that's contracted out to Firestone or something isn't going to bug me.

 

[fastricky]

I have a local brewery here on Long Island (Blue Point) that contract brews their bottled beer. They both taste different. You drink the tap beer compared to the bottled beer and they taste like 2 different beers. But they are both good and I enjoy drinking it either way.

This to me is one of the main issues. I have never found a contract beer to taste as good as the initial version that was made in the small, local brewery. Blue Point is one example. Southampton another. I won't go into Brooklyn because the stuff that comes out of Utica I think is very disappointing.

The other main issue is staying LOCAL. I don't really consider another part of the state supporting the local community, or providing that sense of pride.

And don't make me mention the whole 'soul' thing again!

 

[LiquidAthlete]

My next door nieghbor does exactly what you are talking about. He owns a very small label that is distributed on Long Island and in Manhatten. To me there are two sides to this. The economic, and the purist.

From the economic side, to actually take your idea and actually get it to market is very difficult. getting capital, getting through all the red tape getting your product sold and distributed and many other tiny things that he hasn't even told me about that are issues. He has been doing it for 3 years now and still hasn't made any money. It takes a lot, and I admire him for doing it.

As for the purist side, I do see the issue. He creates and test brews a recipe at home to see how he feels it will go. It is then brewed in upstate New York and ditributed in Long Island and parts of Manhatten. MY small issue with the purity of it is it is being brewed under two totally conditions and I don't see how it can come out to be the same end product. I have been to a number of parties, and his homemade beer beside his commercial brew is no comparison. His homemade tastes so much better. My wife and I had an Oktoberfest and he put his kegerator beside mine. Mine did better then his commercial. From the purist side, I think there is and always will be something lost the further away from our personal labors of love we go.

For his case his labor of love is the company and making that successful. That will be done by creating a great poduct that people will hopefully like and buy.

I wish him the best, and hope he make a million bucks.

I think in the end, to answer the original question, It doesn't scare me off. I'll try anything that is considered craft brewed if its a style I like. It is someones labor of love.

 

[salanry]

Has anyone watched the documentary "Beer Wars"? (and no, I am not talking about the Broken Lizard movie "Beer Fest" )
Beer Wars documents the fall of regional breweries to the big three during the 60's and 70's. It also documents the rise of microbreweries in recent years and the challenges they face within a broken system of distributors. There is sooo much good beer out there to try but the distribution network heavily favors profits for the big guys.
Even if Budweiser came out with a great tasting beer, I would never try it. I also avoid any beers that are owned by InBev, which rules out imported favorites such as Boddingtons, Leffe, and Bass.
Does anyone know of any good micro/regional breweries that make a Draught Bitter similar to Boddingtons?

 

[billf2112]

I do not have a problem with contract beers, as long as they list where it was brewed. If it says brewed in ABC, I want it brewed there. I will seek out local brews first, so want to see the locality of the brewery on the label.

As far as a "brewpub", it has got to be brewed on location for me.

 

[chrispykid]

A lot of confusion in this thread as to who brews what/where in NY.

I'm pretty sure that Sixpoint brews all their beer in Brooklyn without any contract brewing at all. They do sell their beer in Philadelphia now as well so maybe that's where the confusion comes in? If anyone has a source to indicate otherwise I'd like to see it, I follow this brewery pretty closely and would be very surprised to find out they contract any of their beers out.

Brooklyn Brewery contracts most of their output to FX Matt (makers of Saranac and Genesee) upstate - they always have and they're upfront about it when you tour the Brooklyn plant. Their Brooklyn plant makes a lot of their specialty products including (I believe) everything in caged and corked specialty bottles and their brewmaster reserve tap handles (eg all their best beers), maybe some others as well, not sure. The lager is definitely produced upstate.

Heartland Brewery contracts all or most of their brewing to Kelso Brewing in Brooklyn, not sixpoint. I think the Union Square locations has some limited production on premise. Kelso also makes some beers under their own name for local distribution to bars.

Captain Lawrence just outside the city produces all their own beer on premise.

 

[Airborneguy]

Even if Budweiser came out with a great tasting beer, I would never try it. I also avoid any beers that are owned by InBev, which rules out imported favorites such as Boddingtons, Leffe, and Bass.
Does anyone know of any good micro/regional breweries that make a Draught Bitter similar to Boddingtons?

I can't imagine why someone would deny themselves a beer that they like because of this (yes, I saw Beer Wars).

Hell, after my work football game today I had not one, but two Budweisers! And I enjoyed them!

 

[Airborneguy]

Heartland Brewery contracts all or most of their brewing to Kelso Brewing in Brooklyn, not sixpoint.

You're right about it being Kelso, but it's Heartland that owns the production facility. They allowed the head brewer to develop his own line, which is how Kelso came to be.

I couldn't find anything that specifically proves that, but this basically lays it out:

http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/02/a-pint-with-kelly-taylor-brewmaster-for-heart.html

The reason I do know that for sure though is because my uncle is very good friends with the owner of the Heartland Brewery chain, and he knows the whole history of the business. He actually asked me if I wanted him to talk to his friend about a job, but I definitely wouldn't make anywhere near enough to justify the switch so I declined.

 

[Revvy]

I can't imagine why someone would deny themselves a beer that they like because of this (yes, I saw Beer Wars).

Hell, after my work football game today I had not one, but two Budweisers! And I enjoyed them!

'cause "Big corporate beer be bad." I'm not a Bud fan at all (don't like rice adjunctaed beers, NOT because it's bud), but to not drink Leffe, Boddingtons, et al, if you enjoy them simply because inbev??? Seriously. Like I said, read Ambitious Brew and you'll feel less like this.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Even if Budweiser came out with a great tasting beer, I would never try it. I also avoid any beers that are owned by InBev, which rules out imported favorites such as Boddingtons, Leffe, and Bass.

Brilliant! Or, better yet, you should stage a world boycott on InBev to teach them a lesson. Their market share will plummet, plants will close, thousands of americans will get laid off and be thrust into unemployment with little varied employment experience, house foreclose, vehicle get repo'd, it'll be chaos.

That will teach them not to allow people to foolishly, yet willingly, purchase their products.

 

[Ben_Persitz]

Mmm. Mactarnahans Brewery (Portland) does a lot of production at the Pyramid brewery in Seattle. Of course Macs is owned by Pyramid so not a big deal.

As far as I know most of my Portland beers are done in state by the company. Rogue brews mostly in Newport, Widmer (I think) brews most of the beer here in Portland or at Red Hook's joint.

 

[HumanGarbage]

Even if Budweiser came out with a great tasting beer, I would never try it. I also avoid any beers that are owned by InBev, which rules out imported favorites such as Boddingtons, Leffe, and Bass.

I agree. It looks like we are in the minority, but I can't really fault the opposing viewpoint either. I suppose it is like many things- personal preference.

For me it comes down to supporting those I feel deserve my money. Besides not buying a particular beer is a great motivation to create a clone brew. Thanks to Revvy I can enjoy Leffe again for example (great recipe sir!).

On topic: Yes I would be disappointed, but might still buy the product if they are upfront about it as others have said.

 

[krebs119]

Brooklyn Brewery contracts most of their output to FX Matt (makers of Saranac and Genesee) upstate

For what it's worth, I don't think Genessee is brewed by FX Matt. I'm pretty sure its still under High Falls brewery, who just bought out Magic Hat and another brewery on the west coast...

 

[Stuntman]

I'll buy any beer that tastes good.

As Revvy stated if the brewpub was trying to be confusing, or out right lying, I would be offended. I just gave up drinking Modelo for a while (thought it was great, but now burned out on it). I buy PBR, I buy a lot of it, but when I get tired of it will find another cheap filler when needed to offset the expensive beer I buy.

Or better yet, brew some beer, and be done with store bought!