What is wrong with the leaf and should I be worried?

[wfowlks]

I noticed there was some yellowing and it looks like something is eating the leaf, of that is the case I'll need to spray that stuff. I am liking for help, the plant in question is centennial. This has not happened to my cascade


This picture is a little zoomed out

 

[el_pollo_diablo]

I'm no botanist, but my hops have the random mutant leaf as well. I never bother with any sprays and the plants are very strong and healthy. They seem to be quite resilient! Although my centennials are definitely the slowest and most troublesome of the 3 varieties...

 

[theredben]

That looks like iron deficiency, applying any fertilizer with iron in it will fix that.

 

[wfowlks]

I'm no botanist, but my hops have the random mutant leaf as well. I never bother with any sprays and the plants are very strong and healthy. They seem to be quite resilient! Although my centennials are definitely the slowest and most troublesome of the 3 varieties...

Yeah the Cascade that I have are taking off and grow at least 2 inches per day, but I only have 2 vines, I have like 12 shoots for the centennial but they are all really short

That looks like iron deficiency, applying any fertilizer with iron in it will fix that.

Thanks a bunch, I'll stop by Lowes on my way home

 

[cram]

I dunno...that soil *looks* pretty rich. Sometimes leaves can look like that from too much inputs, too. I might let it ride for a bit, especially if you've already added a lot of inputs this year (compost, manure, and/or ferts) and give them another shot of inputs when the plants get bigger.

Don't worry about some insect damage to a few leaves.

 

[theredben]

cram - you cannot identify nutrient deficiencies based on how the soil "looks". The plant is displaying classic iron deficiency symptoms (yellowing on upper growth, as iron is not very mobile in the plant), and an excess of iron does not inhibit the uptake of other nutrients.

wfowlks - Post some updated pics in a few weeks for future readers if possible.

 

[wfowlks]

The soil base is in a potter, it was a mix of the knock off brand of Miracle Gro potting soil and organic dehydrated manure and compost, as well as sand. I went to Lowes today, and the fertilizer that had the most Iron in it was the Miracle Gro All Plant food with .19%. To me that doesn't seem like a lot, but it was the highest with the other fertilizers not listing iron or having less than .05%

I will keep posting pictures every week or so as they start to develop, I will say that my Cascade plants grew 2 inches today, while I was at work. I almost think you could sit there and watch it grow

 

[mikeysab]

http://m.homedepot.com/p/Miracle-Gro-1-5-lb-Tomato-Food-2000421/100077406

I had some brown leaves and yellowing leaves. I used this fertilizer a week and a half ago (.10 iron) and trimmed the lowest leaves, and no more leaves have turned brown and everything looks nice and green. The bines are really growing strong too. I noticed a very fine white substance sandwiched between two leaves. It felt like a spider web. I don't know if it was mildew or spider mites but i sprayed neem oil. When i sprayed, about 10 little bugs flew out of the leaves and mulch. As soon as i sprayed, it proceeded to rain for the last 4 days. I've been checking for discoloring and bugs every day and everything looks great. If the rain ever stops, i'll use that fertilizer again and see how they turn out.

 

[cram]

I'm still under the impression that you likely would not have iron deficiencies this early into the growing season if you started out with new soil and manure/compost. Sure, you cannot identify nutrient by looking but it's fair to say that you can see in the picture plenty of partially decomposed organic matter and that's a far cry from "plain" dirt/sand.

Consider going light on the nutrients but adding them more often--the weekly/weakly adage is sound advice. There will be a lot more need for inputs when the plant is 15' tall and shooting side arms than there is with a 2' bine. Look at some other folks pictures of bines coming out of a (again, not sound science) poorer *looking* growing medium with dark green leaves.

If you were to dump a lot of hot manure on a young plant, the leaves would take on a similar yellowing. Given that you have added manure and new soil this year (which has nutrients added), my point is that you're likely not seeing iron deficiencies already since the plant already has some energy stored in the rhizome and it's relatively small and, therefore, does not require a big nutrient load But, of course, the is just my two cents so take them for what they're worth. I don't want to turn this into a pissing contest, just wanted to throw out an alternative position for consideration. Either way, good luck and happy growing this season.

@ wfolks...blood meal is a good source of iron, and might be less likely to burn plants. Whatever you use, may I suggest halving the recommended dosing and adding it twice as often.

 

[wfowlks]

So, I noticed today that some of the leaves had started to tear, but last night we had a really really big thunderstorm that dropped a ton of rain. In my watering bucket it was about an inch and a half of rain. It looked like one of those movie rainfalls where it was an absolute downpour so I believe it. And were supposed to get similar storms today.

I got some neem oil to cover that base, just in case there were any bugs. I think both cram and theredben are right, I did some reading on iron deficiency, and it can be caused by to much phosphorus, which would be from the manure and the Miracle Gro, because the phosphorus inhibits the iron uptake.

So i will probably just stick to watering for now, and Miracle gro at half the dosage for a week or 2 and I will be posting pictures

Thanks so much for all the help guys!

 

[cram]

wfowlks...your comment about all the rain made me think that one more thing to rule out is whether or not your pot is draining well. I couldn't tell from your comments if the hops are growing in a pot or not but, if they are, double check that water runs out the bottom after watering. A water-logged plant is no good.

 

[AlCophile]

w:
The most common mistreatment is overwatering, but, I myself have been guilty of another mistreatment: the wrong pH. You should have pH paper on hand whenever you grow, and especially when container-growing. It seems to be a product of the decomposition of the organic materials in the potting soil, and it builds up over time. When you prep the soil, put in some (how much?) limestone and mix well. NOT lime, no matter what the clerk says. LimeSTONE!!! Since they're already planted, you might check pH, and if acidic, try to mix limestone in a few places where you don't see any roots.

 

[wfowlks]

wfowlks...your comment about all the rain made me think that one more thing to rule out is whether or not your pot is draining well. I couldn't tell from your comments if the hops are growing in a pot or not but, if they are, double check that water runs out the bottom after watering. A water-logged plant is no good.

The pots are draining correctly, In the bottom of the pot I drilled about 12x 1/2" holes. In the bottom I put those drainage rocks that you can get at lowes for like 2$, and then I put in some larger flat rocks from my yard to help stop the dirt from filling up the drainage holes. I think that should be enough to ensure proper drainage?

I know a lot of instructions say they like sandy soil, maybe I didn't put enough sand in the soil?

AlCophile: I'll probably pick up some pH strips on my way home tomorrow. Wont bone meal or blood meal that sits on top of the soil help in that regard as well or does that make the soil more acidic?

 

[wfowlks]

So here is what I did:
I put some Miracle grow on them, just a little bit, and then the storm hit, and had heavy downfall. The leaves that were yellow had the yellow parts ripped off by the rain. And I also have some ripped leaves on the cascade now but I will just chalk that up to nature abuse.
Centennial: (The ones that had the yellowing and holes)



Cascade:



After reading everyone's post and doing a little research following the leads, I think that the heavy rain might have helped to lower the pH of the soil since rain is typically known as "acid rain". I am just going to water about 1/4 gallon per day per plant, does that seem reasonable or is that to much to little? The soil always seems to be damp since there is the organic matter on top that has wood in it, but its hard to tell down in the pot how it is. I also treated the plants with neem oil, just to cover that base as well.

Hopefully it gets better and the rips stop and we can just write that off as a young plant in harsh rain/wind

 

[hawgwild81]

So I started following this thread because I was having the same problem with my centennial's. I fed them some miracle grow Saturday and when I checked them today I noticed the tips of the bines were yellow now, they weren't before, and on two of the bines the tip is gone. Will the bines continue to grow without the tip? This is only my second year growing them so I'm not sure what to expect out if the hops. Thanks in advance!

 

[cram]

hawgwild81...generally a broken tip will result in two new bines growing from the next complete leaf node beneath the tip. I doubt it's related to the application of miracle grow, more likely a pest as they tend to love the tender new growth the most. As tempting as it is to let both bines grow from the leaf node, I have found that better yields result from pinching off the seemingly weaker side (one side tends to grow a tad longer, faster) after they get 4-6" or so.

As for the increased yellowing, it looks like you *might* have over done the miracle grow. Less is often more, so to speak, with synthetic ferts in particular, especially early in the growing season. Hops are hearty suckers and the problems should self-correct if given some time. Note that the "lower number" organic ferts (for example, 4-4-4) tend to be harder to screw up. They may not make as much sen$e for the commercial guys but for the hobbiest, home grower, it's often a good choice. Synthetic inputs certainly have their place, especially for commercial or container applications, but they require more careful application. This time of the year, while the plants are in the vertical growth, vegetation state (meaning, not flowering) higher nitrogen inputs are the most valuable contributions you can make. Still, a balanced organic fert like the 4-4-4 is also a good choice and miracle grow can be fine if you follow the directions closely and, arguably, use less than the recommended dosing, especially when the plants are little ones.

wfowlks...the plants already look better to me. I think you'll find things will work out just fine. Don't baby them too much; it's often better to let the plants partially dry out before watering again. Making the roots have to search a bit for water will force them to head down and make the plant more resilient in the end.

 

[wfowlks]

So an update: The upper leaves are looking better, and I think I found the 4 good shoots from the 2 Rhizomes, from which I will prune the others. But the lower leaves still appear to be eaten, but the upper ones have been saved I think by the neem oil because I found some evidence of bite marks on the leaves, which I will post tomorrow, (Just got a new phone and its to dark to take pix).

 

[wfowlks]

Hawg did the miracle gro hit the leaves, I just try to water the base, because you look like you have some well colored leaves, and the phosphorous may burn the leaves if applied in the middle of the day or in the sun

 

[hawgwild81]

Hawg did the miracle gro hit the leaves, I just try to water the base, because you look like you have some well colored leaves, and the phosphorous may burn the leaves if applied in the middle of the day or in the sun

No. The miracle gro didn't touch anything except the base. All my discoloration is taking place at the top of the bines. The tips are turning yellow and falling off. I'm getting a ton of off shoots around the base. Not sure if that's normal, as this is only the second year I've attempted to grow.

 

[wfowlks]

Hrm, well I am at a loss then, have you sprayed them with neem oil to rule out a pest? It's been a while now too so have the new vines sprouted from the dead head

 

[wfowlks]

So now I have noticed some white thing on the hops which I have taken a picture of, along with some general browning spots on leaves, but I have sprayed it with neem oil which makes me wonder why the bugs are there.

Cascade leaf browning:



Centennial with Bugs:




Also when can I cut the bottom leaves, and is there a general rule of thumb for cutting them besides finding a sharp blade/scissors to cut them with. Like should I cut the decaying/bad leaves off as close to the base as possible or should I leave like 1/4 inch stub... etc

Thanks guys much appreciated

 

[theredben]

The white "bugs" are the old skins of aphids that they moulted out of (like snakes). They do not mean that there are currently aphids on your plant, as the skins can stick around a long time, but you should take a second look.

 

[wfowlks]

Leaf update, things are looking better

 

[mikeysab]

What did you do? I'm having a hard time with my plants.

 

[wfowlks]

I spray with neem oil once a week and miracle gro twice a week

 

[wfowlks]

So there has been a lot of rain lately and I think it has been washing off the neem oil because a ton of the leaves are chewed up I would put it at about 80%. I was able however to get some pictures of the culprits:

This little guy was on a leaf near some of the chew marks, however, I am not really sure what it is:


This little green guy was hard to spot, I'm not sure what it is, I don't think its an aphid but who knows I'm not an expert. But he was conveniently located at the base of the chew marks on the leaves.



A close up:


If anyone knows what they are or how/if to kill them, becuase the neem oil keeps getting taken off the plant as it continuously pours in MD as of late.

 

[MeanDeuce]

Same boat here. Can't tell if its rain, too much water or lack of nutrients. Lower leaves are drying and splotchy, upper parts are still growing and starting to flower. Hit it with neem about a week ago to stave or bugs and mildew. Any thoughts? One thing I've considered is I only get partial morning sun. They are shaded after 1pm.

 

[wfowlks]

With the heavy rain, I actually started just putting the Miracle Gro Granules around the base of the plant right before a big rain, and that helped some with the yellowing of my lower leaves. How often do you fertalize it?

 

[MeanDeuce]

I've only given it some miracle grow once about a month ago. Since then its started this trend and I was afraid I'd burnt the leaves or overwatered so I was afraid to fertilize more.

 

[wfowlks]

Try just putting the Miracle gro granules directly on the soil and let the rain water it in. Thats what I have resorted to with these recent heavy rains