What is this flavor in my beers?

[westwardclock]

You using the same yeast every time? Specifically what about the ipa, pale and stout?

The stout and ipa were 1056 and the pale ale was 1968.

 

[Travestian]

It's probably not the excess water

If it really is a high pH that is the issue, then I have to politely disagree (in the presence of the Yooper queen) that the excess water would not cause an issue with pH. Since the amount of grain contributes to the pH based on the volume of water, a change in the volume of water would cause a lesser effect on pH for the same amount of grain. Your mash pH would be too high in that regard.

 

[Yooper]

If it really is a high pH that is the issue, then I have to politely disagree (in the presence of the Yooper queen) that the excess water would not cause an issue with pH. Since the amount of grain contributes to the pH based on the volume of water, a change in the volume of water would cause a lesser effect on pH for the same amount of grain. Your mash pH would be too high in that regard.

But the difference would be minimal. The difference in the amount of water might make a difference of +.2 or something like that. If the mash pH is too high, it's because the mash pH would have been too high even at 1.5 quarts/pound.

The difference in pH between 1.5 quarts/pound and 3 quarts/pound

It's not like a mash pH would have been 5.5 with the "right" amount of water and suddenly 5.9 with more water. That's not possible. Sure, the pH could have been too high- it usually is unless acid is added to a mash. But it's not really the extra water that would cause the problem. It's probably already too high, and the extra water just pushed it higher. To see what I mean, try running a scenario through a water spreadsheet like bru'n water and see the differences.

For example, using my tap water with 9 pounds of two-row, with 3.5 gallons of water (1.5 quarts/pound), the pH would be 6.2.

Using 9 pounds of two-row, with 6.75 gallons of my tap water, the pH would be- 6.2.

Both are too high, but it's not like the cause is using double the water! It's just too high because it was already too high.

 

[scubasteve03]

I may be way off the mark with this but try brewing an extract kit to see if the off taste continues. The way I understand it is that the ph of your water does not affect an extract kits as much as it would an all grain kit due to the mash is completed by the manufacturer using water balanced for it.

Once again, I may be wrong on this one as well but doesn't ph affect hop utilization as well? This may be the reason your IPA has such a strong off flavor.

Please correct me if im wrong, but these are things that I have looked at to improve my process as well.

 

[westwardclock]

I may be way off the mark with this but try brewing an extract kit to see if the off taste continues. The way I understand it is that the ph of your water does not affect an extract kits as much as it would an all grain kit due to the mash is completed by the manufacturer using water balanced for it.

Once again, I may be wrong on this one as well but doesn't ph affect hop utilization as well? This may be the reason your IPA has such a strong off flavor.

Please correct me if im wrong, but these are things that I have looked at to improve my process as well.

I just got an extract kit to help narrow my issue down. I'll be making it this weekend, but unfortunately I won't know anything for a month or more.

 

[westwardclock]

But the difference would be minimal. The difference in the amount of water might make a difference of +.2 or something like that. If the mash pH is too high, it's because the mash pH would have been too high even at 1.5 quarts/pound.

The difference in pH between 1.5 quarts/pound and 3 quarts/pound

It's not like a mash pH would have been 5.5 with the "right" amount of water and suddenly 5.9 with more water. That's not possible. Sure, the pH could have been too high- it usually is unless acid is added to a mash. But it's not really the extra water that would cause the problem. It's probably already too high, and the extra water just pushed it higher. To see what I mean, try running a scenario through a water spreadsheet like bru'n water and see the differences.

For example, using my tap water with 9 pounds of two-row, with 3.5 gallons of water (1.5 quarts/pound), the pH would be 6.2.

Using 9 pounds of two-row, with 6.75 gallons of my tap water, the pH would be- 6.2.

Both are too high, but it's not like the cause is using double the water! It's just too high because it was already too high.

I guess that makes sense to me. I really didn't think that ph could make such offensive flavor in my beer. I thought it would be just more complex vs 1 note flavors. I have read its possible to get astringency but reading about that leads me to believe its a feeling more than a taste. I'm getting a definite taste/aroma. Burping echoes it. It's bad.

 

[Yooper]

I guess that makes sense to me. I really didn't think that ph could make such offensive flavor in my beer. I thought it would be just more complex vs 1 note flavors.

It depends on how high the pH is, but I've noticed a very harsh astringent flavor in lighter colored beers brewed with alkaline water (high mash pH). It's hard to say if this is your issue, though, without knowing the water source or the flavor exactly. It's just one of the possibilities.

You can get a water report from Ward Lab for $26.50 or so. It was like $16 up until a couple of months ago, as they just raised their prices. It might be worth it, just to know what you have to work with in your brewing water, and to help you know how to deal with your water.

 

[westwardclock]

I plan on getting my water tested. I also thought about testing the spring water that I used tested. However there is no guarantee that the water is of the same source even if its in the same packaging. Because of that I think I may use distilled or RO water in the future and adjust from neutral, In The case that my tap is unacceptable.

It's reasonable to believe that spring waters are different from source to source but ro/distilled should be almost identical. Correct?

 

[Yooper]

It's reasonable to believe that spring waters are different from source to source but ro/distilled should be almost identical. Correct?

Yes, assuming the RO machine is taken care of properly. I bought a little GH/KH aquarium test kit for a couple of dollars, just to check the RO water from my RO system occasionally. I know those "water machines" at the stores are supposed to be maintained, but it wouldn't hurt to check with one of those kits or a TDS meter.

 

[westwardclock]

At the start of this post I had 2 beers that were in the primary. I'm tasting both for the first time today. 1 to bottle and 1 to transfer to a secondary. At this point I cannot taste any of my off flavor in either, and best that I can remember I couldn't taste it before bottling on the last one either(going from memory but so I could be wrong). They both seem promising. So Apparently I have some bottling problem or something.