What equipment for CO2 Purge

[USMChueston0311]

Hey guys

Ive done some searching, and still cant figure out what equipment i need to purge my carboy of oxygen using CO2. Obviously I need a CO2 tank, but what else would i use to either just blow CO2 in until i think all oxygen is gone, or push sanitizer out using Co2?

Im racking to secondary because im brewing a chocolate porter, and using cholaca and cacao nibs, and following cholaca instructions, to rack on top of in a secondary carboy.

What should I use other than the tank to accomplish this. Thank you very much for your time.

I brew all grain with fly sparge.

Steve
CPL USMC
Hueston Guitars

 

[mongoose33]

If you have a cap that allows two tubes (looks like this), you can extend one to the bottom of the carboy to act as a siphon, and then attach a gas line to the other. Fill with Star-San, then push out using the CO2.

I do this with my kegs; fill with Star-San, then push that star-san into a bucket or another keg with CO2.

 

[SanPancho]

Thats gonna be tough. Carboys aren’t typically airtight like a keg is. If you have a plastic carboy you can make it somewhat airtight. You could try this-

Assuming you have a plastic carboy with the skinny neck, fill it to the brim with water and put on an orange carboy cap. Find a decent 3-4” diameter hose clamp to clamp around carboy cap on the neck of vessel. Put a racking cane in to the bottom of the carboy. Now somehow you need to get your co2 into the other tube on the carboy cap. Hose to hose, barb to barb adapter, etc.

Depending on how tight co2 line and racking cane are you might want small worm clamps to seal them up too. Then put about 1 or 2 psi on it and the water will flow out. You basically made a keg.

If you have an auto siphon put the tubing on the racking cane and you can transfer by gravity into secondary.

 

[day_trippr]

Here's what you need...plus safety glasses, of course....

Cheers!

 

[USMChueston0311]

If you have a cap that allows two tubes (looks like this), you can extend one to the bottom of the carboy to act as a siphon, and then attach a gas line to the other. Fill with Star-San, then push out using the CO2.

I do this with my kegs; fill with Star-San, then push that star-san into a bucket or another keg with CO2.

Extend "one" what???

Im sorry im not a reading learner guy. Im a visual guy.

Since im going to drink this right away do I even need to worry about this step? Ive racked to 2nd in the past without co2, i was just told by a pro brewer tonight that I shoudl do this!

 

[USMChueston0311]

Thats gonna be tough. Carboys aren’t typically airtight like a keg is. If you have a plastic carboy you can make it somewhat airtight. You could try this-

Assuming you have a plastic carboy with the skinny neck, fill it to the brim with water and put on an orange carboy cap. Find a decent 3-4” diameter hose clamp to clamp around carboy cap on the neck of vessel. Put a racking cane in to the bottom of the carboy. Now somehow you need to get your co2 into the other tube on the carboy cap. Hose to hose, barb to barb adapter, etc.

Depending on how tight co2 line and racking cane are you might want small worm clamps to seal them up too. Then put about 1 or 2 psi on it and the water will flow out. You basically made a keg.

If you have an auto siphon put the tubing on the racking cane and you can transfer by gravity into secondary.

thats what im asking/ what parts i need to push the co2/ other than the tank. i have an autosiphon, the kind that you pull/push to start the flow. Im ignorant to anything co2.

 

[USMChueston0311]

Thats gonna be tough. Carboys aren’t typically airtight like a keg is. If you have a plastic carboy you can make it somewhat airtight. You could try this-

Assuming you have a plastic carboy with the skinny neck, fill it to the brim with water and put on an orange carboy cap. Find a decent 3-4” diameter hose clamp to clamp around carboy cap on the neck of vessel. Put a racking cane in to the bottom of the carboy. Now somehow you need to get your co2 into the other tube on the carboy cap. Hose to hose, barb to barb adapter, etc.

Depending on how tight co2 line and racking cane are you might want small worm clamps to seal them up too. Then put about 1 or 2 psi on it and the water will flow out. You basically made a keg.

If you have an auto siphon put the tubing on the racking cane and you can transfer by gravity into secondary.

and im using a glass carboy. skinny neck

 

[IslandLizard]

How long are you going to put it on the Cholaca or cocoa nibs? You don't need both.
If less than 2 months, no need for a secondary, IMO.

If using nibs, you're best off breaking them up into very small pieces and soaking them in vodka, bourbon, whatever you fancy, for 1-3 weeks. Then add the whole lot to your fermentor.

 

[IslandLizard]

Here's a link to using Cholaca in beer. There are a few more discussions here on HBT.

 

[mongoose33]

Extend "one" what???

Im sorry im not a reading learner guy. Im a visual guy.

Since im going to drink this right away do I even need to worry about this step? Ive racked to 2nd in the past without co2, i was just told by a pro brewer tonight that I shoudl do this!

Day_Trippr showed what I meant.

I agree with the others, though, in that it's not clear that you need a secondary if you are not using it for a long time.

 

[SanPancho]

The photo is what i described. It will purge the water or star san from the carboy with co2. To fill the secondary simply reverse the position of the vessels, secondary on floor and primary up higher. Connect the output tube of your siphon to the racking cane and siphon into the vessel. It will displace the co2 as it fills up.

If your siphon hose and racking cane wont mate (different sizes) then just take the carboy cap offand quickly cover the neck with clean cloth or alum foil. Slide the siphon hose in under the cover and transfer onto the cholaca.

 

[LarMoeCur]

I think using a secondary is an unnecessary step that will lead to oxidation problems. You are on the right track about an O2 free transfer. I leave the beer in the primary until it’s completely fermented. I then use the same sterile syphon pictured by DayTrippr to transfer my beer into one of my bright tanks. My bright tank is a corny keg with 1-2 inches of the dip tub cut off. So, if I’m dry hopping or adding oak cubes or coco nibs. I throw them in the bright tank and purge/fill it with co2 a few time to make sure it’s void of O2. I then transfer the beer into the bright tank for aging/laagering and clarification (super easy to add gelatin to the tank). When aging is complete, I jumper transfer to a sanitized regular keg for carbonation and serving.

 

[SanPancho]

I think using a secondary is an unnecessary step that will lead to oxidation problems. You are on the right track about an O2 free transfer. I leave the beer in the primary until it’s completely fermented. I then use the same sterile syphon pictured by DayTrippr to transfer my beer into one of my bright tanks. My bright tank is a corny keg with 1-2 inches of the dip tub cut off. So, if I’m dry hopping or adding oak cubes or coco nibs. I throw them in the bright tank and purge/fill it with co2 a few time to make sure it’s void of O2. I then transfer the beer into the bright tank for aging/laagering and clarification (super easy to add gelatin to the tank). When aging is complete, I jumper transfer to a sanitized regular keg for carbonation and serving.

you may not be adding more fermentables, but racking off the fermenter and aging on hops/oak/fruit/etc is a secondary.

 

[IslandLizard]

you may not be adding more fermentables, but racking off the fermenter and aging on hops/oak/fruit/etc is a secondary.

Technically, if there is no secondary fermentation taking place, it's not a secondary. It's some other vessel, such as a bright tank.

 

[SanPancho]

no, a brite tank is for making beer bright- i.e crash the solids. if you are adding anything to the beer then its a secondary /aging vessel.

if you want to claim the technicality of there being no further/second fermentation then you should also be technically correct and call it what it truly is being used as in this scenario which is an aging vessel.

 

[IslandLizard]

no, a brite tank is for making beer bright- i.e crash the solids. if you are adding anything to the beer then its a secondary /aging vessel.

if you want to claim the technicality of there being no further/second fermentation then you should also be technically correct and call it what it truly is being used as in this scenario which is an aging vessel.

Hey, all good!
I wasn't calling the OP's aging vessel a bright tank, it was just an example of 'another purpose' vessel, other than 'secondary.'

 

[LarMoeCur]

you may not be adding more fermentables, but racking off the fermenter and aging on hops/oak/fruit/etc is a secondary.

You are correct. I don’t know why homebrewers want to call it a secondary fermentation. When no fermentation takes place unless you’re adding more fermentable. If you are transferring your beer into any vessel for aging then technically you are doing a secondary. Even if 10 days later you put the CO2 line on and serve from it. You Technically still did a 10 day secondary. We are talking semantics at this point.

I think the point we are all trying to make is to transfer your beer into a sealed vessel where you can limit oxidation.

 

[SanPancho]

yes, avoiding o2 is a good goal, and the OP's reason for the post.

but what i was pointing out is that you recommended against transferring to a secondary vessel.....and then went on to describe how you (routinely?) transfer to a secondary vessel.

or am i missing something?

 

[LarMoeCur]

yes, avoiding o2 is a good goal, and the OP's reason for the post.

but what i was pointing out is that you recommended against transferring to a secondary vessel.....and then went on to describe how you (routinely?) transfer to a secondary vessel.

or am i missing something?

No you are not missing anything. Unless you are serving beer from you fermenter then everyone uses a secondary of some sort. Just not a secondary fermenter or is having a secondary fermentation. We can point out the semantics of the word secondary all day. It doesn't answer the OP's question. That purging a carboy may limit O2 but will not be an oxygen free environment and open transferring beer multiple times is not in the best interest of good beer.

Secondary:
1. coming after, less important than, or resulting from someone or something else that is primary.

So by definition everyone uses a secondary. So, yes, I use a brite/aging tank as a secondary. Yes, I use serving kegs as a secondary. So, to clarify, I would recommend not using a carboy as a secondary unless you are adding new fermentables. I think the transfer procedure and vessel used are very important in the secondary process.

Day_trippr picture clearly shows a closed transfer to a secondary (corny keg). I recommend doing just that and call that step whatever you would like and when you put in the keg call that step a tertiary fermentation. And when you drink it call that step quaternary fermentation. And when you pee out call that step a quinary fermentation.

 

[SanPancho]

Actually im not the one that raised the issue of secondary. That was you and island lizard.

Like mongoose, i simply explained a way to do a closed co2 transfer for the op. You made a contradictory statement, i pointed it out. You answered with reductio ad adsurdum.

This isnt a contest. Just want to help the OP to get it all straight.

So on a final note- OP= be very careful pressurizing the glass carboy. They are not designed to hold pressure. Day tripper can tell you more, since he uses glass, but keep the psi as low as you can. Even 1-2psi is enough to push the beer. Slow and steady. Lots of stories about them breaking, shattering, etc unexpectedly on people, and that’s without being pressurized. Definitely a situation where more is not better.

 

[LarMoeCur]

SanPancho, I'm trying to argue if it sounded that way. This is all good discussion about improving brewing processes. And I agree about helping the OP is the priority. And after rereading my origial post as normal my brain works faster than my fingers. I left out a few key words that may have muddied the waters. It's all good!

 

[day_trippr]

Like, "not"

 

[LarMoeCur]

Like, "not"

Yes "Not". See that's exactly what I mean! I have slow fingers.