What do you guys intend to do?

[SuperiorBrew]

I dont really brew to save money, I think most hobbies are not cost effective in the long run.

 

[homebrewer_99]

First off, it's a hobby. All hobbies have sunk costs, one time costs, depreciation of equipment, etc., and most importantly YOUR TIME!

That one comment about $5/hour was just too damn funny. I make $40/hour. Should I use that price when estimating how much my beer costs me to brew? I seriously doubt it!

Any way, none of these costs should be factored into pricing your end products. What should be are just the ingredients.

If you are paying higher prices for your supplies it's only because you are not buying bulk. I buy my DME in 55# boxes at $140 (2.55/lb). The LHBS sells 3# bags for $12-14 (I really don't know because I dont purchase them, but I'm sure I'm in the ballpark...). That's a minimum of $4./lb. Using 5-6 lb per batch would cost $24-28, plus yeast and hops. In bulk that $15.30. I buy hops in bulk (not being a hop head also saves $$$ on needing to use extra ounces of hops in a batch) and I wash my yeast (a $7 vial used 7 times brings the per use cost down to $1, but I use mine more than that).

So, 15.30 + hops @ .75/oz + 1 for yeast = $17.05. That's still under $20 a batch...I also top up to 5.25 gal which results in having over 5 gals left at bottling time.

Most of the time I get about 37 - 0,5 liter bottles, a time or two I have gotten 40.

Let's look at the math:

Local beer place: 37 * 2.50 = 92.50 - 20 = $72.50 savings...IF they sold what I made/liked/wanted.

Bar/restaurant" 37 * 5 = 185 - 20 = $165.00 savings...IF they sold what I like to drink.

But, hobbies aren't about $$$, although this post could lean on that way. It's about abilities/skills/knowledge and PRIDE in making a product that is very enjoyable to consume and share with others.

Then again, if you can drink the stuff they've convinced you are great beer then by all means this hobby may not for you, but I think you are looking at it at the wrong angle.

No matter how high the prices of supplies go up it'll always be cheaper to DIY versus drinking megaswill.

Brew away...:rockin:

 

[EdWort]

My brews cost about 13 cents per 12 oz. serving, but I have not factored in the capital investment in equipment (I'm afraid to do that). If I did, I think they would be in the $10 a bottle range.

 

[abracadabra]

My brews cost about 13 cents per 12 oz. serving, but I have not factored in the capital investment in equipment (I'm afraid to do that). If I did, I think they would be in the $10 a bottle range.

Ed,
I wish I knew your secret. I figure it cost 12 cents a 12 oz. serving just for fuel and water usage.

99,
I don't think Spaden, Imperial and Sam Adams is megaswill I think it's excellent beer. If you feel otherwise then that's OK.

But my off time is precious and valuable to me if your off time has no value to you the that's OK too. I just used the $5/hr as a comparison for people who do place some value on their free time. If the only beer you like is the beer you make then by all means pay what ever they feel like charging you. But the price has gone up whether or not you buy in bulk.

OK it's a hobby. But I for one have many different hobbies and interests.

Some peoples hobby's make money some peoples hobby's cost money.

There again I am just trying to point out to the people that there is a fantastic value in certain commercial beers right now that won't last long.

 

[DUCCCC]

I don't see a real price increase, but that's on account of my just getting into this hobby recently and I don't see how much less expensive it may have been in the past. I just accept the current prices as they are. From my perspective, if the prices go down I'm going to be even more excited about homebrewing!

 

[bobjenkins79]

Damn, I wish I made $40 an hour. I wouldn't know what to do with all that money!!

 

[EdWort]

Ed, I wish I knew your secret. I figure it cost 12 cents a 12 oz. serving just for fuel and water usage.

Brew all grain, buy in bulk, & propagate your yeast. Here are the costs of my standard brews. I propagate the hefe & koslch yeast and pay retail for the specialty grains for the Haus and retail for the hops for the Kolsch.

My Haus Pale $7.85
My Hefe $6.55
My Koslch $8.42

 

[Cheesefood]

Just talking to my in-laws today about the grain prices. It's not ALL to do with corn and soybeans. Sure, soybeans are getting up to $10 per bushel, corn is getting to $4.00 a bushel and land prices are getting as high as $6,200 per acre (in Iowa) but the grain shortage has more to do with droughts. That's what rose the price of grain - simply not enough supply due to weather. Now it's true that a lot of people are growing corn, but I wouldn't worry about the grain prices. They'll probably go down if weather is better next year.

So sayeth my inlaws, who are 3rd generation to farm the same land.

 

[abracadabra]

Thanks Cheese that's great news.

 

[SuperiorBrew]

Ed,
I wish I knew your secret. I figure it cost 12 cents a 12 oz. serving just for fuel and water usage.

99,
I don't think Spaden, Imperial and Sam Adams is megaswill I think it's excellent beer. If you feel otherwise then that's OK.

But my off time is precious and valuable to me if your off time has no value to you the that's OK too. I just used the $5/hr as a comparison for people who do place some value on their free time. If the only beer you like is the beer you make then by all means pay what ever they feel like charging you. But the price has gone up whether or not you buy in bulk.

OK it's a hobby. But I for one have many different hobbies and interests.

Some peoples hobby's make money some peoples hobby's cost money.

There again I am just trying to point out to the people that there is a fantastic value in certain commercial beers right now that won't last long.

If I placed a value on my time this board would owe me enough cash to pay for all my 2008 brews

 

[boo boo]

I'll keep on brewin'. It's my hobby and I have enough grain, hops and yeast to last me until 2009 if I have to.
Local BMC beers here cost me $22 a 12 pack which is still more than it costs me to brew 5 dozen including the gas.

 

[abracadabra]

One last point I'd like to make before I drop it. Is about equipment costs. I think depreciation is a non factor if you bought high quality equipment. Anyone that invested in good stuff say 5 years ago could get more money for it now than they paid. How much is that copper IC you bought in 1999 worth today?

So I think it makes sense not to factor in the cost of equipment. As high quality equipment maintains it's value over the long haul. Plastic bucket's and glass carboys are so cheap that they are almost a non factor. Unless you regularly scratch or bust them

 

[IowaStateFan]

One last point I'd like to make before I drop it. Is about equipment costs. I think depreciation is a non factor if you bought high quality equipment. Anyone that invested in good stuff say 5 years ago could get more money for it now than they paid. How much is that copper IC you bought in 1999 worth today?

So I think it makes sense not to factor in the cost of equipment. As high quality equipment maintains it's value over the long haul. Plastic bucket's and glass carboys are so cheap that they are almost a non factor. Unless you regularly scratch or bust them

Sorry, but I can't let this go. You are concerned about the costs of your brews. Ingredient costs are going up, your time is valuable, yet you say the cost of the equipment is irrelevant. No, it is not. It is the most significant part of the hobby. Sure the copper in your immersion chiller may be worth more than when you bought it, but who is going to buy it from you for more than you paid? After time the fittings wear and will need to be replaced. Glass carboys may be cheap, but how many brews can you get from one at $20 each before it needs to be replaced? Tubing needs to be replaced periodically, as do racking canes, keg seals, and other odd parts. All of these things cost money and add to the price of your brew. If the cost of your time is important to you, then I don't see how you can dismiss the equipment costs.

BTW, I also value my time, but I don't place a $ amount on it for brewing. To me it is an escape - a time to unwind and relax doing something I enjoy. We all need to have an outlet to escape from the daily stresses in our life and brewing is one of mine. That makes my brewing time valuable and while I'm sure there is a point at which $s come into consideration, I'm a long way from that.

 

[SuperiorBrew]

If I quit doing things every time prices have risen I guess I wouldn’t be doing anything anymore. Just about all prices steadily rise. I didn’t quit driving when gas went up. I didn’t quit drinking coffee when coffee prices went up etc. Actually I just started roasting my own beans, so if I figure the $300 for the roaster, $200 for the grinder plus the cost of the green beans, airtight canisters, electricity and my hourly wage I may as well drive to Starbucks a couple times a day.

Edit: Spelling

 

[BierMuncher]

...I don't place a $ amount on it for brewing. To me it is an escape - a time to unwind and relax doing something I enjoy. We all need to have an outlet to escape from the daily stresses in our life and brewing is one of mine...

I recon I'll keep on brewing regardless. There are lots of free brew related activites that don't cost money.

I'd rather:
Clean kegs than watch TV.
Dick around with Beersmith than read a book.
Organize the brew shop than take a Sunday drive.
Sanitize beer bottles than chase a white ball around a golf course.
Dust off my grain mill than walk the dog.

And the SWMBO would rather I do all those things as long as it keeps me off her "back"......if you will...

 

[abracadabra]

Sorry, but I can't let this go. , yet you say the cost of the equipment is irrelevant. .

Glass carboys may be cheap, but how many brews can you get from one at $20 each before it needs to be replaced?

No! I did not.

I said depreciation is a non factor if you bought high quality equipment.

And other disposable items such as plastic buckets (I get mine free) should last long enough that the costs drop below consideration.

How many brews can you get from a $20 glass carboy? 1000's

 

[Rick_R]

My perspective on homebrewing is that it is a relatively inexpensive hobby that provides free beer to boot. I have a pilot’s certificate, planes rent for $90 per hour – and there’s no free beer. At six hours/batch and $30/batch, I’ve got a $5/hour hobby that, again, provides free beer. What’s not to like. Even at $60/batch, it would still be a relatively inexpensive hobby that, once again, yields free beer. To me (again, just my perspective), if you go into homebrewing to save money then it isn’t really a hobby, it’s a side job. As a side job, I can see where you want the best return for your time. Oversimplification, I know, but more or less accurate from my viewpoint.

Rick

 

[brewhead]

we recently bought a pallette of grain which got the price per bag down around the $22 mark and we do bulk hop buys. so as a group we are set for the rest of 08.

i would suggest you join a club - befriend a micro - ect and do all your purchases in bulk.

the good side of all of this is that we will be forced to use hops we normally don't which should produce some interesting beers.

 

[abracadabra]

I have a pilot’s certificate, planes rent for $90 per hour – if you go into homebrewing to save money then it isn’t really a hobby, it’s a side job. As a side job, I can see where you want the best return for your time. Oversimplification, I know, but more or less accurate from my viewpoint.

Rick

Rick

I have friends that love to fly and fly for a hobby. They've taken it further and have instructor lic. and now other people pay for them to fly. That doesn't make it any less of a hobby that now they fly for free or get paid to do it.

Same with another friend that loves to fish. People now pay for his fishing trips if he just takes them along, or pay him to take them out. The fact that he get his trips paid for or that people pay him to fish with them doesn't distract from his enjoyment of the sport.

I love to build and repair things. And the fact that I might get paid for repairing a guitar doesn't cause me to enjoy the process any less.

It's great to do what you love, If you can get someone to pay you for doing what you love to do you'll never have to work a day in your life. And it's not a job its getting paid for doing your hobby.

Just because it's a hobby I can't rationalize in my mind spending the money they are now charging. I could if the price of beer had doubled or almost doubled like hops and grain have, most other people that frequent this forum can and I'm happy for them, plus it helps keep the ecomony rolling.

 

[brewhead]

I can't rationalize in my mind spending the money they are now charging.

ok then what kind of equipment you have for sale?

give me a laundry list and i'm sure if you have some good stuff we can sell it fast.

 

[abracadabra]

ok then what kind of equipment you have for sale?

give me a laundry list and i'm sure if you have some good stuff we can sell it fast.

If the price of gasoline gets unreasonable I might drive less or find other ways to reduce the amount I purchase. But I won't sell my truck.

Same can be said for grain and hop prices and my brewing equipment. But unlike my truck most of my brewing equipment is going up in value not down.

But if I change my mind you'll be the first to know.

 

[brewhead]

i'm just going by your statement: "I can't rationalize in my mind spending the money they are now charging"

But unlike my truck most of my brewing equipment is going up in value not down.

doubt it. unless you have some very special brewing equipment. in fact i would say that your truck will hold it's value far longer than your brewing equip. as far as gas prices - other than iran - iraq - venezuala and a couple other places - we pay pretty fairly for gas with the netherlands paying right at the $7 / GAL. i don't like it anymore than you men do (waits for someone to catch the quote) but it's either sell the truck - keep on paying the higher prices - or piss and moan about it.

i personally don't like the higher grain/hop prices but whatcha gonna do? sell the brewing equip - keep on paying the higher prices - or piss and moan about it.

there are many ways given in this thread alone that will save you good money on many batches to come.

 

[abracadabra]

i'm just going by your statement: "I can't rationalize in my mind spending the money they are now charging"


doubt it. unless you have some very special brewing equipment. in fact i would say that your truck will hold it's value far longer than your brewing equip.

- keep on paying the higher prices - or piss and moan about it.

.

Doubt it all you like. Have you checked the price of copper lately?

I just saw a 7 gal. stainless steel fermenter that costs much more than I paid for a 14 gal. version.

I started the poll and thread for several reasons:

1. to get people to post money saving ideas,
2. to get an idea of what the hard core brewing crowd was planning on doing and
3. to point out for anyone wishing to take advantage of the situation that there are some excellent values in commercial beers right now that won't last long at the current price of hops and grains.

not to bemoan the current situation. One way or the other it will surely change.

 

[TerapinChef]

I don't like it anymore than you men do

Cool Hand Luke.
Do I win a prize?
Like maybe all of abracadabra's brewing equipment? I don't have much...I"m just starting out....really.....

 

[brewhead]

Doubt it all you like. Have you checked the price of copper lately?

i'm in the hvac biz - i deal with that commodity on a daily basis. we didn't stop being a mechanical contractor - we simply addressed the situation and continued on.

I just saw a 7 gal. stainless steel fermenter that costs much more than I paid for a 14 gal. version.

i just recently built a 15 gallon fermenter that cost me less than $200 to make.

1. to get people to post money saving ideas,

the best ones i've seen are - bulk buying and brewing with less ingredients.

2. to get an idea of what the hard core brewing crowd was planning on doing and

i think you've got your answer. we plan on keeping on keeping on.

3. to point out for anyone wishing to take advantage of the situation that there are some excellent values in commercial beers right now that won't last long at the current price of hops and grains.

so what are you going to do when the price of hops/grain drive up the price of these good beers? very quickly those values are going to be history.

i say brew your own. you'll be far more ahead of the curve. and you'll have an enjoyable/consummable hobby.

not to bemoan the current situation

i have just read so many rants about the prices of grain and hops. folks - there's nothing we can do to stop the rise. so how can you go about saving a buck? bulk pallet buys of grain will get you down in the 22 - 25 dollar range. bulk hop buys will save you tons. so now all you are stuck with buying unless ou buy specialty grains in bulk are the few $$ you spend on specialty grains per 15 gallon batch.

i couldn't tell you the last time i bought commercial beer. for one - i am uninterested. not that i disqualify it as a viable product, but that i started brewing beer to have the ability to brew what i drink. and that is exactly what i do.

 

[brewhead]

Cool Hand Luke.
Do I win a prize?
Like maybe all of abracadabra's brewing equipment? I don't have much...I"m just starting out....really.....

YOU WIN! we're still negociating for abracadabra's brewing equipment

 

[cheezydemon]

Hear, hear.

It is worth it to me to still make better beer, cheaper than what I can buy in the store. Even if it was the same price as commercial beer I would brew because I make better beer.(for the most part)

I also enjoy the pride and craftsmanship, I don't see the point of clones and kits.

 

[olllllo]

It seems that abracadabra has a different point of view. We should all be equally open and respect that.

Time will tell how we weather this storm.

 

[cheezydemon]

But weather it we will! I may just go into the Hop growing business. Maybe we should all start growing grain and hops in our backyards. We can then barter and trade! It's a nice thought anyways.

 

[CBBaron]

Prices have gone up.
For some people that may mean that brewing has gotten to be too expensive of a hobby. For most people here it is still an inexpensive hobby with a nice side benefit of beer.
For me I figure the cost of the equipment as the cost of the hobby an money spent on brewing supplies as money spent on beer. I still get much more for my money brewing than buying craft beer. If the balance started tipping to the point where I could buy my favorite beers for less than I brew I would probably brew much less. However what I buy costs between $8 a six to $14 a 4 pack or higher. I greatly doubt grain, hops and fuel could increase enough to price me out of brewing without pricing me out of beer completely (in other words the craft beers would increase in price too to the point I would stop drinking). It would be a sad day if it came to that.
If you like cheaper beers and don't care much for brewing then this is not a good hobby for you.
Craig