Westvleteren 12 Group Brew & Swap

[chri5]

Just added 3lbs of homemade medium amber candi syrup. The stuff smelled amazing, which it better after taking 4 hours to make.

I also made up a small batch of wort to help bring up the volume closer to a full 5-gallons.

After just over 18 hours, the original wort had already passed high krausen, but was still bubbling along nicely. I'm expecting some big time activity after adding in all this extra sugar. The beer already in the bucket had a great aroma, but i did not do a hydro test or sample due to it already being after midnight.

 

[Displaced MassHole]

Holy Hell this thing is blowing off like crazy, I'm so glad I got up last night and put a hose on it. The laundry room would have looked like a carboy bomb went off if I didn't.

Just finished the recipe for the Deep Amber (take two) and it came out much better. On my first try I misunderstood the directions, after taking it to 290 and adding 1.5 cups of water I brought it back up to 290. Well probably higher than that due to my POS thermometer and it tasted awful.

This stuff taste pretty good though, REALLY sweet, but it should due this beer some good seeing how I over shot my IBU's.

Like I said earlier it's blowing off like crazy right now, should I wait until fermentation slows down a bit before adding the syrup or just pull the hose and dump it in really fast?

 

[KingBrianI]

Holy Hell this thing is blowing off like crazy, I'm so glad I got up last night and put a hose on it. The laundry room would have looked like a carboy bomb went off if I didn't.

Just finished the recipe for the Deep Amber (take two) and it came out much better. On my first try I misunderstood the directions, after taking it to 290 and adding 1.5 cups of water I brought it back up to 290. Well probably higher than that due to my POS thermometer and it tasted awful.

This stuff taste pretty good though, REALLY sweet, but it should due this beer some good seeing how I over shot my IBU's.

Like I said earlier it's blowing off like crazy right now, should I wait until fermentation slows down a bit before adding the syrup or just pull the hose and dump it in really fast?

I would wait until fermentation slowed a little. I made the mistake of adding my syrup when it was fermenting really hard and was rewarded with a whooole lot of blowoff within about 10 minutes of adding it. I lost a bunch of beer and yeast due to that.

 

[Sigafoos]

So far the fermcap is doing wonders for me. The blowoff jar is going crazy with bubbles but nothing in the tube. I also think I'm fermenting lower than I need to, but I'm dealing with Buffalo weather here. I'm doing my best!

I only have one temp controller, so would aging it at keg temps be ok? That's a good 10+ degrees lower than recommended. I suppose the answer is 'it better be' because it's that or in the shadowy recesses of my basement, which is probably around 60 or so.

 

[Displaced MassHole]

Well I went ahead and added the second dose of candi syrup yesterday as soon as I made it. Still blowing off like crazy this morning before I left for the day.

I pulled the tube out of the bucket and you can actually feel the co2 blowing out, freaking amazing!

 

[Freezeblade]

Well I went ahead and added the second dose of candi syrup yesterday as soon as I made it. Still blowing off like crazy this morning before I left for the day.

I pulled the tube out of the bucket and you can actually feel the co2 blowing out, freaking amazing!

Yeah, the only way I avoided blowoff after adding the candi syrup was by putting my 3-gallon batch into a 6.5 gallon bucket, and the foam just barely didn't blow out even with that much head room. 530 is a force to be reckoned with.

 

[Displaced MassHole]

530 is a force to be reckoned with.

No kidding!

Man this thing is going to be awesome, after some quality conditioning time.

My ADD/Lack of patients is going to kill me while this one sits.

 

[chri5]

After spending the week in Tucson, I came home to find it still giving off a bubble every 10 seconds or so. I'm going to do a gravity check tonight when I am kegging my alt bier.

Smells like heaven in that room.

 

[saq]

You were just in Tucson and you didn't stop to say hi?

 

[chri5]

Oh crap. I didn't notice you were from there. me=fail.

Next time we'll have to grab a beer.

 

[saq]

I hope you stopped at 1702: Great Pizza and Beer in Tucson Arizona at least!

 

[chri5]

I hope you stopped at 1702: Great Pizza and Beer in Tucson Arizona at least!

You have just shown me my new favorite spot in Tucson. I went to Buffalo Wild Wings all three nights. lol

 

[chri5]

tested the beer.

Still at 1.040. The smell is very strong, and the taste is even stronger. Has a ton of pruniness from the syrup, which is pleasant at first, but get overpowering very quickly. it is also really dark. Not quite a stout darkness, but getting there.

I might have to brew a small batch of a small, light Belgian to blend with this at bottling.

 

[saq]

Its supposed to be dark, almost like a porter. 38 SRM specifically, thats really dark.

What fermentation temperature did you achieve? The beer really needs to get up to at least 79f to begin to approach the levels of attenuation we see here (86%!) 82-83 is the official Westvleteren 12 fermentation temperature for about 5 days, followed by two days at 65f.

How much yeast did you pitch?

 

[chri5]

2l starter into about 3 gallons of wort. I think part of my problem is that I still added the full 3lbs of syrup instead of scaling down due to the lower volume.

Temp has probably been more in the 77 range. Window is open in the fermentation room now letting in the 92deg air. It is still fermenting, so all is not lost.

 

[Sigafoos]

I moved mine down to the basement, so probably in the 60s now. Still bubbling constantly, though I think I'll take a refractometer calculation to be sure because my hefe got something nasty in it and fermented down to 1.003 (where I said eff it and kegged).

 

[juvinious]

Well I pitched my starter last night since I was waiting on it to pick up from the weekend. About 2.8L in to the Westy 12 and 1.5L into the Westy 8. This morning constant bubbling from the 8 and a huge belch from the the 12 every other second from the blow off tubes in a gallon container of starsan. The ambient temperature is at around 79-81F in the room. I expect to find it going crazy when I get home today. Since I was a bit off on the 12, I'm going to be adding another 2.5lbs of my Extra Dark Syrup to bring the brew up to 1.097 probably sometime tomorrow or the day after. I'll also be adding 3 lbs of DME and 2 lbs of the extra dark syrup to the 8 to bump up the gravity a bit more since it was extremely low and get it to the correct color.

 

[saq]

Careful with the ambient temp there, the yeast sees about a +6f rise over ambient. That means you want your ambient around 74-75f. You should have those thermometer strips on your fermenters so you know what your fermentation temp is.

 

[juvinious]

Hmm ok I'll see if I can correct it later today. I unfortunately don't have any thermo strips, I'll have to get some of those...

 

[juvinious]

Well checked up on it today, beer temp was at 78-79.
The 12 was at 1.050 from 1.097 (46.2%) and the 8 at 1.033 from 1.072 (52.4%). The 12 is quite fruity, reminds me of a fermenting wine.
The 8 on the other hand is quite mellow, not as fruity or estery.
Anyhow below is a pic, the 12 is in the glass and the 8 in the hydrometer cylinder.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

saq,

Do I understand correctly that you guys fermented at 74-75 ambient and that the fermentation itself was at ~82F. I was under the assumption that the ambient was at 82 and the fermentation was at whatever. I was trying to figure out a way to do this without a heating pad but this is not necessary if the ambient temp was closer to 74F. Thanks!

 

[saq]

Yes, my fermentation freezers ambient temp was about 75f so that my fermentation temperature of my vessel (the only temperature that REALLY matters when it comes to fermentation) is at 82f. Stick some thermo-strips or thermowells on your fermentation vessel so you can dial it in.

 

[saq]

A few updates, with lots of pictures.

First up, Westy 12 New World recipe. Its been conditioning for about 4 weeks and gravity hasn't change. Its pretty dark, can barely see through it in a glass. Tasted pretty good, kind of reminiscent of St Bernardus 12, was really smooth. My OG number and fermentation on this one pretty much hit the numbers exactly. 1.090 to 1.012 in a week for 86% attenuation just like the monks do it.

Next up, the traditional recipe!
Its not as dark as I was expecting, reminds me kind of like a barleywine. Got a nice dark color but is still transulcent. The taste on this one however, is unbelievable! I think putting the sugar in for the full boil is one of their secrets!

I overboiled a little bit and ended up with a little bit less wort than planned (5.25g instead of 5.5g) and I hit my 75% efficiency so I ended up with a 1.096 OG, and I didn't quite get fermentation temp up to 82f, more like 80f and so I got about 83-84% apparant attenuation with a FG of 1.015.

 

[saq]

Ok, I secured an extra bottle of Westvleteren 12, so I cracked open the 2008 vintage one I had for a tasting! This will hold me off from tapping my two brews too early.

Appearance: Dark opaque brown, thick offwhite head (it was almost up to the top of the glass on initial pour) with good carbonation.

Aroma: Bread crust, a little bread dough, some fruity esters, and a hint burnt/candied banana at the end. The banana comes out a little bit more as it warms. No clove.

Flavor: Initial flavors of sweet malt characters that is a little bit like a ripe fig, nice and round and full. Touch of raw cocoa, and a touch of candied banana that fade into a lingering very pleasant finish on a bed of residual sweetness. Kind of like a Belgian Barleywine. Moderately sweet (but balanced with some bitterness), very complex and delicious. No alcohol bite.

Mouthfeel: Full bodied mouthfeel that is not too heavy or oily in the classic monk style. Carbonation level is pretty moderate, it refreshes the palate without getting in the way. Probably 2.6-2.7 volumes.

Overall: Belgian beer is like a sweet almost candi-like refreshment, and this is a great example of such. The beer is so simple and yet so complex at the same time, a true masterpiece of brewing.

Notes for people attempting to recreate this beauty: Its all about the sugar. I can definitely tell that Belgian pilsner and pale malts were used, but the beer is a showcase of the very fine Westmalle yeast and the dark sugar that is used. Hop flavors are *almost* nonexistent and there is some bitterness to keep the beer from being cloying sweet.
If you compare the picture of this beer with my new world beer recipe, I think its really really close. The traditional recipe is obviously way too light. However in flavor, the traditional is much closer. When I mixed the new world and traditional together it was a fairly close overall comparison to the real thing. We'll see what aging time does to these beers.
From left to right: My traditional recipe, my new world recipe, the real thing.

 

[KingBrianI]

so the new world recipe is closer in taste too? interesting. i think my traditional recipe is a bit darker than yours, but i've never tasted the real thing in order to compare how close the taste is.

 

[saq]

Whoops! Meant to say the traditional is closer in flavor. I'm racking my brain how to get the color closer to the real thing. I think BLAM stating the Westvleteren 12 being 40 SRM might be inaccurate, they do kind of admit that quantifying the color is difficult. My new world is 26.6 according to beersmith and its nearly spot on, whereas my traditional is 22.6 according to beersmith and far too light. I think a darker candi syrup would do the trick.

 

[KingBrianI]

ok good, that makes me feel better. i think you've just inspired me to go grab a sample from mine to check on it's flavor. i haven't touched it since i started conditioning it at 50 F. it will be interesting when we swap to see what candi syrup flavors each person's beer has and how they compare to the real thing (for those people who have had it). as i stated earlier in the thread, i used homemade candi syrup, and while it tasted great, i have no idea how it compares to commercial candi syrups or that used by westy.

 

[saq]

I think when I do a 3rd attempt later in the year its going to include some homemade sugar as dark as I can possibly make it. 3lbs of 100-120 SRM would do the trick for a 5.5g batch.

 

[KingBrianI]

Have you tried making any yet? That stuff is delicious! I made some more yesterday for a beer I was doing today, and I couldn't stop licking the pot I cooked it in. You can't believe how many flavors develop from just some sugar, water and DAP. I'm gonna have to start keeping some on hand to pour over ice cream and anything else I can think of.

 

[Freezeblade]

Have you tried making any yet? That stuff is delicious! I made some more yesterday for a beer I was doing today, and I couldn't stop licking the pot I cooked it in. You can't believe how many flavors develop from just some sugar, water and DAP. I'm gonna have to start keeping some on hand to pour over ice cream and anything else I can think of.

I know, I keep a jar of dark and a jar of amber around for use in baking and morning oatmeal, I'm thinking of using amber syrup in place of the turbando in my english bitter recipe.

As for the color, I'm really considering cheating next time I make this and throwing in a few ounces of carafa III, that should do the trick.