Belgian Dark Strong Ale Westvleteren 12 Clone - Multiple Award Winner

[Jwin]

Thanks again, really like troglodytes idea of carbing a bit lower. I might aim for about 2.6

Can anyone confirm for me there will be no issues with adding 6L of yeast starter that's been running for 48 hours to a 11G batch, with no cold crash? Reading on other subs has me worried about off flavors...

I would crash and then do a small vitality starter. Best of both worlds that way.
If you have a small flask(1-2L), just make the starter in that, chill, decant old starter liquid and add new starter to the 6L. It shouldn't take long for the yeast to get going. Couple of hours maybe.

 

[Kee]

Can anyone confirm for me there will be no issues with adding 6L of yeast starter that's been running for 48 hours to a 11G batch, with no cold crash? Reading on other subs has me worried about off flavors...

I've routinely pitched a 2L starter into a 5 gallon batch (at high krausen) without problems. Taste the starter. If it tastes OK there will be no problem. It will knock down the OG slightly if you don't adjust for that.

 

[topoisomerase]

Hi all. after two weeks on WLP 530 in the primary (ramp the first week to 78F and then another week at 78F) gravity seems to have landed at 1.018 which I know is too high. What is the best course at this point? Rack to secondary and pitch fresh WLP 530? I'd appreciate any thoughts. Thanks.

 

[shotgunsteve]

I would crash and then do a small vitality starter. Best of both worlds that way.
If you have a small flask(1-2L), just make the starter in that, chill, decant old starter liquid and add new starter to the 6L. It shouldn't take long for the yeast to get going. Couple of hours maybe.

Thanks Jwin and Kee, I took advice. Crashed 24 hours, warmed, then decanted ALL of the slurry (minor yeast lost) and pitched a new fresh pack of 1762 in as well.

I dumped the yeast into a few litres of wort to really get them going before pitching. Super healthy fermentation for 36 hours now, with a slow rise from 68F to 81F.

 

[jtp137]

Those of you that successfully made this clone do you rack and cool the beer before reaching terminal gravity or do you just let it sit in the primary at a high temp until you know it is finished and they yeast have had time to clean up after themselves

I am interested because I went to Westmalle’s website and read about their brewing process they say that 80% Of fermentation is done in primary then they transfer to a separate tank and cool to 50 and let it finish. Why would they do that? Every thing that I read tells you to never transfer unless its done

 

[ten80]

Hi all. after two weeks on WLP 530 in the primary (ramp the first week to 78F and then another week at 78F) gravity seems to have landed at 1.018 which I know is too high. What is the best course at this point? Rack to secondary and pitch fresh WLP 530? I'd appreciate any thoughts. Thanks.

That's where I ended and my beer is too sweet. I used 3787 and it just crapped out and wouldn't go any lower, despite ramping to 80 F over the course of a week. I'd say make a WLP 530 starter, then when it's going strong add 1 cup of your wort to get the starter used to high alcohol levels, let it ferment a little longer, then pitch into your racked beer.

I wish my beer had ended more around 1.008-1.010. I was surprised by the high ending gravity given that I pitched on a HUGE and fresh yeast cake.

 

[ten80]

I am interested because I went to Westmalle’s website and read about their brewing process they say that 80% Of fermentation is done in primary then they transfer to a separate tank and cool to 50 and let it finish. Why would they do that? Every thing that I read tells you to never transfer unless its done

Doesn't seem like they could be doing that with "trappist" yeast based on our experiences with stuck fermentations! Perhaps they pitch a different yeast with a higher alcohol tolerance. A wine yeast strain would easily finish off any simple sugars in a 10% ABV beer, I have done this several times with saisons that contain adjuncts. 71B is my go-to strain for such a purpose.

 

[jtp137]

Doesn't seem like they could be doing that with "trappist" yeast based on our experiences with stuck fermentations! Perhaps they pitch a different yeast with a higher alcohol tolerance. A wine yeast strain would easily finish off any simple sugars in a 10% ABV beer, I have done this several times with saisons that contain adjuncts. 71B is my go-to strain for such a purpose.

I don’t think I will ever try it


https://www.trappistwestmalle.be/en/brewing-process?agecheck=plus18

 

[jtp137]

The next time I brew this I am either going to pitch at 64 let it sit for 2 days then let the yeast rise to whatever temp it wants and hold it and pray I dont make paint thinner or incrementally feed the wort the syrup during fermentation

 

[eustacesk]

The next time I brew this I am either going to pitch at 64 let it sit for 2 days then let the yeast rise to whatever temp it wants and hold it and pray I dont make paint thinner or incrementally feed the wort the syrup during fermentation

The guys at LHBS said to add the majority of the syrup when transferring to secondary so that all the maltose gets eatin up. I put 1Lbs in the boil and going to add another 2Lbs to secondary

 

[ten80]

I put 1Lbs in the boil and going to add another 2Lbs to secondary

Ditto, but I just step-feed sugars right into the primary fermentor. This is a good way to give yourself the option of not adding more sugars if the fermentation is stuck. I'd rather have a lower ABV but well-attenuated beer than a high ABV and overly-sweet beer. That said, my brew did end up about 0.008 points high despite ramping temperature and step-feeding. Evidently, this brew takes a little finesse to get right!

 

[jtp137]

Ditto, but I just step-feed sugars right into the primary fermentor. This is a good way to give yourself the option of not adding more sugars if the fermentation is stuck. I'd rather have a lower ABV but well-attenuated beer than a high ABV and overly-sweet beer. That said, my brew did end up about 0.008 points high despite ramping temperature and step-feeding. Evidently, this brew takes a little finesse to get right!

How do you figure out the IBUs? Would it be the same if you added the sugar during fermentation

 

[ten80]

How do you figure out the IBUs? Would it be the same if you added the sugar during fermentation

IBUs are figured out during the boil and wouldn't change significantly with the volume added by sugars. I figure out gravity points by measuring the final volume and summing up the post-boil OG and the gravity points from sugars.

 

[eustacesk]

Ditto, but I just step-feed sugars right into the primary fermentor. This is a good way to give yourself the option of not adding more sugars if the fermentation is stuck. I'd rather have a lower ABV but well-attenuated beer than a high ABV and overly-sweet beer. That said, my brew did end up about 0.008 points high despite ramping temperature and step-feeding. Evidently, this brew takes a little finesse to get right!

Yea thats my line of thinking. So did you use D-180 or regular sugar?

 

[ten80]

Yea thats my line of thinking. So did you use D-180 or regular sugar?

I made my own candy sugar, probably something around D-180 based on this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/20-lb-of-sugar-and-a-jar-of-yeast-nutrient.114837/

 

[Kee]

Those of you that successfully made this clone do you rack and cool the beer before reaching terminal gravity or do you just let it sit in the primary at a high temp until you know it is finished and they yeast have had time to clean up after themselves

I am interested because I went to Westmalle’s website and read about their brewing process they say that 80% Of fermentation is done in primary then they transfer to a separate tank and cool to 50 and let it finish. Why would they do that? Every thing that I read tells you to never transfer unless its done

Do you have a link? I could only speculate why they would transfer before final gravity is reached (maybe they take their time cooling down), but you definitely do not want to lower the fermentation temperature on this recipe before you get your target fg.

 

[jtp137]

I don’t think I will ever try it


https://www.trappistwestmalle.be/en/brewing-process?agecheck=plus18

 

[Kee]

Thanks. The article does indeed seem to indicate that the beer is cooled down before it's finished. I'll have to read it again in the morning when I am drinking coffee instead of homebrew, since it doesn't make sense to me right now.

 

[jtp137]

This is pretty interesting also

 

[jtp137]

Well just made my starter for this weekend only 5 gallon batch this time hopefully it will not get stuck. I am thinking about holding the sugar off until a couple days into primary. Looks like OG will be 1.074 before I add the 3 pounds of D-180. Website gives directions how to use sugar during fermentation. I am a little worried about the ester profile since OG will only be 1.074 three days into fermentation when most of the character is produced. But I did use this yeast for a blonde once and it had nice character

 

[troglodytes]

I see your ready to try again, but I wanted to let you know, I used an active starter of wlp530 on my 6 gallon batch and I hit my target final gravity exactly. I followed the exact schedule from csi on page 2 of this thread and my product came out prefect. If you have a fermentation chamber and can control the temps within a degree I have to highly recommend doing that method and pitching into the full gravity wort. Just make sure you don't lose yeast to blowoff, and if you can aerate do so at pitch and then again a little later that same day. Also, I didn't skip the servomyces, it really worked. I had three separate blowoffs with 1.7 gal of headspace.

 

[jtp137]

I see your ready to try again, but I wanted to let you know, I used an active starter of wlp530 on my 6 gallon batch and I hit my target final gravity exactly. I followed the exact schedule from csi on page 2 of this thread and my product came out prefect. If you have a fermentation chamber and can control the temps within a degree I have to highly recommend doing that method and pitching into the full gravity wort. Just make sure you don't lose yeast to blowoff, and if you can aerate do so at pitch and then again a little later that same day. Also, I didn't skip the servomyces, it really worked. I had three separate blowoffs with 1.7 gal of headspace.

I have some wyeast nutrient that I plan on using and I do have a fermentation chamber. How much wort did you throw into your starter to get it going?

 

[troglodytes]

I did a 1.5 L starter from a fresh vial, then after chilling and decanting. I did 1L of preboil, pre syrup wort vitality starter. If memory serves it was something like 1.074. I pitched that just prior to high krausen.

 

[eustacesk]

Well just made my starter for this weekend only 5 gallon batch this time hopefully it will not get stuck. I am thinking about holding the sugar off until a couple days into primary. Looks like OG will be 1.074 before I add the 3 pounds of D-180. Website gives directions how to use sugar during fermentation. I am a little worried about the ester profile since OG will only be 1.074 three days into fermentation when most of the character is produced. But I did use this yeast for a blonde once and it had nice character

I added 1 Lbs at the end of the boil and held off the other 2 lbs till secondary. This worked really well. My "FG" was 1010 when i racked to the secondary. I didnt even recollect the yeast. Just let it rip through all the maltose then added the rest of the sugar. I see a lot of people on here with stuck fermentation and i think this is the culprit. My LHBS guys really stressed not front loading so much sugar to where the yeast isnt as interested in the maltose. Lots of folks had success adding the sugar up front, but i chose to play it safe.

 

[jtp137]

I added 1 Lbs at the end of the boil and held off the other 2 lbs till secondary. This worked really well. My "FG" was 1010 when i racked to the secondary. I didnt even recollect the yeast. Just let it rip through all the maltose then added the rest of the sugar. I see a lot of people on here with stuck fermentation and i think this is the culprit. My LHBS guys really stressed not front loading so much sugar to where the yeast isnt as interested in the maltose. Lots of folks had success adding the sugar up front, but i chose to play it safe.

Did you follow the temp ramp fermentation instructions and what temp did you mash at? I would rather have a dry Belgian versus an under attenuated Belgian but is 1.010 too low?

 

[eustacesk]

Did you follow the temp ramp fermentation instructions and what temp did you mash at? I would rather have a dry Belgian versus an under attenuated Belgian but is 1.010 too low?

Yea i followed the temp schedule. I mashed at 148-149F. I dont think it is, but not totally sure. I think the target FG was 1012. So its not too far off

 

[jtp137]

Yea i followed the temp schedule. I mashed at 148-149F. I dont think it is, but not totally sure. I think the target FG was 1012. So its not too far off

You are probably right I doubt there would be a noticeable difference between 1.010 and 1.012

 

[jtp137]

Finally got this sucker to ferment past 1.014. I put 1 pound of sugar in the boil and added 2 pounds at day 6. Don’t know if it will get down any further plan on leaving it at 80 degrees for two weeks

 

[Jwin]

For those adding Candi syrup (edit) near the end of fermentation, how long did it take to get back to fg?
I imagined pretty quick. I put 3# in 3 nights ago and gravity was 1.013 preaddition. I have 2 more # to go(10g batch). I didn't want to throw to much sugar in at once but don't want it to stall either.
I do have fresh yeast I can pitch if needed if it does though. Everything seems normal and I'll probably add the rest of the sugar tomorrow after work. I just don't want to pull samples early if I can help it so was wondering what timeline others have seen.
Congratulations @jtp137. Maybe we should swap in a few months and compare. I did drift a little bit due to restrictions and what I had on hand but should still be solid(did wort boil down, only used ~23% Belgian pale, rest was 2 row, added 12oz Belgian aromatic malt and used 1 #d90, 3#d180 and 1# d240 hoping to add a bit more complexity.

 

[jtp137]

For those adding Candi syrup (edit) near the end of fermentation, how long did it take to get back to fg?
I imagined pretty quick. I put 3# in 3 nights ago and gravity was 1.013 preaddition. I have 2 more # to go(10g batch). I didn't want to throw to much sugar in at once but don't want it to stall either.
I do have fresh yeast I can pitch if needed if it does though. Everything seems normal and I'll probably add the rest of the sugar tomorrow after work. I just don't want to pull samples early if I can help it so was wondering what timeline others have seen.
Congratulations @jtp137. Maybe we should swap in a few months and compare. I did drift a little bit due to restrictions and what I had on hand but should still be solid(did wort boil down, only used ~23% Belgian pale, rest was 2 row, added 12oz Belgian aromatic malt and used 1 #d90, 3#d180 and 1# d240 hoping to add a bit more complexity.

I put the sugar in on day 6 and waited until I couldn’t hear the bubbles in the airlock it was day 10 when I took the reading I still have it at 80 and will check it again tomorrow I will probably leave it at 80 for two weeks then start to cool it to drop the yeast