Belgian Dark Strong Ale Westvleteren 12 Clone - Multiple Award Winner

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My plan was to add some brown sugar to the 2nd batch. That would boost it up, but I also don't want to start with to little. I guess I can see what my pre-boil gravity will be.

I think the trick is to not sparge at all for the Westy 12 wort, and just take the true first runnings. Then sparge and use that for the duppel. According to the MBAA, this should give you about 22.5% sugar in your Westy runnings and 15% in your duppel runnings, and there should be another 7.5% left to make an enkle. I am getting ready to brew this again soon, so I may actually try to get 3 beers out of one! I will look into blending to see what that entails at a homebrew level...cheers!
 
I actually bought 4lbs extra grain (for a 2.5 gallon batch). I held them off to the side, and did the Westy like normal. Then i added in the 4 lbs to the mash tun, and did a second mash for 30 minutes with everything in there. I ended up with a 1.036 dubbel pre boil, and 1.072 post boil with 10 oz of brown sugar added.

The Westy 12 gave me problems, but I think they were user error rather than recipe issues. I don't think my wort was mixed well enough w hen I took my pre boil gravity, beca use I was 20 points lower than beersmith said I should be. I tried to boil off a gallon to dilute it before starting my 90 minute boil... 45 minutes into that boil off, I checked my gravity again, and I was about 16 points too high, so I started my 60 boil at that point.

In the end, I was just under 2 gallons in the fermenter @ 1.120 OG. I calculated that I needed to add 0.6 gallons of water to get to 1.091, so I estimated that amount and ended up at, or just above 2.5 gallons @ 1.080. Oops.

That's where I left it.

Just transferred to secondary this weekend. Down to 1.008, so 9.5% ABV. Taste sample is better than my first time around were I added 30 minutes to the boil at the end, and added an extra half pound of D180. This one should turn out good, just a little low on ABV from the recipe.
 
Looking back at the past two months of posts in this thread, I'd like to add from my personal experiences:

1) This is a high gravity brew. I have been doing infusion mashing for years and utilize 10 gallon Rubbermaid coolers. I found I had problems hitting targets when trying to make a 5.5 gallon brew in my equipment--poor efficiency. Many years ago, I ended up dropping down to 3.5 gallon batches for my high gravity brews and I immediately was hitting my targets again and my beers tasted like they should have. If you are having issues with efficiency in all grain brewing, try cutting back on your recipe volume. It is a bit frustrating to have to brew twice to fill a 5 gallon keg, but it is working for me and I find the tradeoff worthwhile. One day, I will build an electric system that will handle larger volumes of high gravity beer.

2) I force carbonate just about every beer I make, with the exception of the Trappist styles. Those I put into Belgian cork bottles and I bottle condition them. I do not add extra yeast for my Trappist Single; however, with the Westy 12 clone being a high alcohol environment at the time of bottling, I think it is worth the extra time and cost to make an additional yeast starter and ensure I am putting healthy and vibrant yeast into the high alcohol beer, along with my priming sugar/syrup.
 
I am planning on making this again soon hopefully without a stuck fermentation I cant seem to get this beer below 1.014. I have made dozens of high gravity beers with various yeasts but wlp 530 has me stumped it always quits on me. This time going to pitch at 65 and let the beer rise on its own and hold it at 80 instead of a gradual temp increase
 
I am planning on making this again soon hopefully without a stuck fermentation I cant seem to get this beer below 1.014. I have made dozens of high gravity beers with various yeasts but wlp 530 has me stumped it always quits on me. This time going to pitch at 65 and let the beer rise on its own and hold it at 80 instead of a gradual temp increase

WLP530 is listed by White Labs to have an attenuation of 79%. I think it would be hard to get much below 1.014 with this beer and that yeast, given the recipe on page 1 of this thread. The OP posted his OG and FG and the calculated attenuation based on his post is 87%. He should have finished at 1.019 or thereabout. I suspect a longer ferment, and perhaps doing a secondary transfer and rousting the yeast, will help this beer get lower, but I would not expect this yeast to get down much lower than you are experiencing.
 
I am planning on making this again soon hopefully without a stuck fermentation I cant seem to get this beer below 1.014. I have made dozens of high gravity beers with various yeasts but wlp 530 has me stumped it always quits on me. This time going to pitch at 65 and let the beer rise on its own and hold it at 80 instead of a gradual temp increase

I think 1.014 is a fine FG for this beer. Maybe not perfect, but produces a great beer. Mine finished at 1.015 and at just over 10% it's a wonderful beer. It's been aging in bottles since February and it just gets better. I'm surprised I still have a case left!
 
I think 1.014 is a fine FG for this beer. Maybe not perfect, but produces a great beer. Mine finished at 1.015 and at just over 10% it's a wonderful beer. It's been aging in bottles since February and it just gets better. I'm surprised I still have a case left!

I didn’t really care for mine it was too sweet it needs to attenuate more and dry out nothing like a commercial dark strong from Belgium
 
Brewed on Saturday and despite being a very long Brew day, around 9 hours everything went as planned numbers wise. Had a bad start with my sight gauge leaking on my brew kettle. So spent around 2 hours trying to fix the leak. I then cracked the glass so had to do some diy plumbing with copper pipe and a few fittings.

I actually over shot me pre boil gravity, it was 1.071. So I took some wort out and added water to dilute things down. Really having trouble dialing in my brewhouse efficiency in Beersmith as it goes up and down a few % with each brew. It varies between 70-72 but if my calculations are correct a 1.071 pre boil would have efficiency in the 80% range.

Post boil gravity was 1.093 so was happy with that and pitched my yeast. After 24 hours it was coming out the blow off tube into my collection flask. Should I add this back in or check the gravity first. As of now at day 4 I have temps at 73-75. Airlock activity has slowed and I can see krausen starting to drop. Should be up to 80F by Thursday is I keep increasing temps at 2F each day. Should I be taking gravity samples yet or is day 4 too early, worried I'm going to get a stuck fermentation.

EDIT: Took a gravity sample and I'm down to 1.021 after 70 hours. How does that sound?
 
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Mine ended at 1.018 and just about 9% ABV. A tad sweet for me. The fermentation did go really fast initially and then slowed to a crawl, despite ramping the temperature to about 80F.

Next time I may pitch some Safale Abbaye (now called BE-256 aka "Belgian dry") near the end of the fermentation to help dry out the beer. I have taken Abbaye to 16.5% ABV with no special treatment, it's a monster yeast. I'd like to taste this beer at about 1.008 FG, I suspect that would be spot-on with Belgian examples.
 
After 24 hours it was coming out the blow off tube into my collection flask. Should I add this back in or check the gravity first. As of now at day 4 I have temps at 73-75. Airlock activity has slowed and I can see krausen starting to drop. Should be up to 80F by Thursday is I keep increasing temps at 2F each day. Should I be taking gravity samples yet or is day 4 too early, worried I'm going to get a stuck fermentation.

EDIT: Took a gravity sample and I'm down to 1.021 after 70 hours. How does that sound?

Yes. Re-add the yeast. You need every cell you can get to get those last few points down

Your gravity sounds good to me. Don't worry too much about taking too many samples. The last few points will take a lot longer and the krausen will drop more or less completely while it keeps going. Keep an eye on your air lock. As long as your temps are right, at this point I'd worry about a stuck fermentation when it happens and not worry if it will happen. If you need to fix it then a big repitch of fresh yeast at high krausen is the way forward.

I got a Tilt hydrometer for this beer and found it a life saver in me keeping my sanity as much as tracking the glacial last few points without pulling samples.
 
Yes. Re-add the yeast. You need every cell you can get to get those last few points down

Your gravity sounds good to me. Don't worry too much about taking too many samples. The last few points will take a lot longer and the krausen will drop more or less completely while it keeps going. Keep an eye on your air lock. As long as your temps are right, at this point I'd worry about a stuck fermentation when it happens and not worry if it will happen. If you need to fix it then a big repitch of fresh yeast at high krausen is the way forward.

I got a Tilt hydrometer for this beer and found it a life saver in me keeping my sanity as much as tracking the glacial last few points without pulling samples.
Thanks for that j616s. Would I be OK to put the blowoff yeast back into the fermenter in a few days or better off doing it as soon as possible. I would like to wait as long as possible as I've never reintroduced yeast so maybe a little paranoid about doing it. I boiled some water in the flask and let it cool before connecting it up to the fermenter. So the yeast is mixed in with the water now, will this be sanitized enough.
 
Thanks for that j616s. Would I be OK to put the blowoff yeast back into the fermenter in a few days or better off doing it as soon as possible. I would like to wait as long as possible as I've never reintroduced yeast so maybe a little paranoid about doing it. I boiled some water in the flask and let it cool before connecting it up to the fermenter. So the yeast is mixed in with the water now, will this be sanitized enough.
If all your kit (blowoff & flask) are sanitary as well as the water, you should be ok. You'll want to add it back sooner rather than later. This is a pretty high ABV beer. It's not an environment particularly compatible with life. You want to re-introduce the yeast while they're still healthy and active. Re-introducing them once they've gone back into a dormant state will likely just kill them. It's the reason for such a high pitch rate and preferably oxygenation in this beer. We want as many cells as possible before the ABV gets too high. Getting the the right amount of healthy enough yeast is probably the hardest part of this recipe. Get it wrong and your flavours might be slightly off or you might not reach the target FG.
 
If all your kit (blowoff & flask) are sanitary as well as the water, you should be ok. You'll want to add it back sooner rather than later. This is a pretty high ABV beer. It's not an environment particularly compatible with life. You want to re-introduce the yeast while they're still healthy and active. Re-introducing them once they've gone back into a dormant state will likely just kill them. It's the reason for such a high pitch rate and preferably oxygenation in this beer. We want as many cells as possible before the ABV gets too high. Getting the the right amount of healthy enough yeast is probably the hardest part of this recipe. Get it wrong and your flavours might be slightly off or you might not reach the target FG.
I gave in and took another gravity reading tonight. I'm down to 1.015 now at around 45 hours and still only at 78F so I'm not touching it, ha. Will raise to 80F tomorrow and should be in and around final gravity. Sample tastes incredible already. Nice hit of alcohol but reckon that will age beautifully over time. I've one 2015 Westvleteren XII left for comparison when it' ready.
 
Cracked a bottle of this last night for the first time in about 6 months. Its reaching 1 year old at this point. I was surprised to find the bottle a bit overcarbed (for the style, not foaming or anything) and thin in comparison to the bottle I cracked at 6 months. Hopefully I didn't pick up a wild strain that is very slowly working its way through the batch. It's still an amazing beer and one my wife has asked me to make on a bi-annual basis.

For those of you who may be thinking like I originally was in substituting other candi syrup for the CSI D180, I don't recommend it. The D180, by far, has provided this beer more amazing flavor than any candi syrup addition I have ever done in a beer (and I make a lot of belgians). It makes this beer what it is for sure, knowing what my final product tastes like vs the sample of D180 I tried at the time of brewing.
 
Can a mod delete this, my phone randomly posted when I dropped it and I can't seem to delete it, only edit
 
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So i am about to make this on Sunday and havent done anything like this before so i have a few questions.
I plan on making this and using the second runnings for an english dark mild. So should i make one massive mash of first runnings and leave the sparge for the second batch? Or sparge as usual and blend w/ sparge to hit gravity pre-boil? I can always amend with DME to hit target

On that note, is the pre-boil & pre-sugar gravity be approx. 1.065??

Also, should i split the sugar additions? I am thinking 1Lbs at end of boil and the rest when the krausen settles and going to secondary. Im worried about getting stuck if the yeast get hooked on the sugar early on.

Is there significant difference between single infusion and multi-step mash? Im leaning toward single infusion @148-149F, but would be fine doing either

I know some of this has be answered, but this forum is pretty extensive. I made it through 10-12 pages and i couldnt find this info.

Great forum and thanks for the help!
 
So i am about to make this on Sunday and havent done anything like this before so i have a few questions.
I plan on making this and using the second runnings for an english dark mild. So should i make one massive mash of first runnings and leave the sparge for the second batch? Or sparge as usual and blend w/ sparge to hit gravity pre-boil? I can always amend with DME to hit target

On that note, is the pre-boil & pre-sugar gravity be approx. 1.065??

Also, should i split the sugar additions? I am thinking 1Lbs at end of boil and the rest when the krausen settles and going to secondary. Im worried about getting stuck if the yeast get hooked on the sugar early on.

Is there significant difference between single infusion and multi-step mash? Im leaning toward single infusion @148-149F, but would be fine doing either

I've always just followed the recipe and put the sugar in toward the end of the boil.

A single infusion works great.

I don't see anything wrong with your plan to spit the batches between 1st and 2nd runnings, just do the calculations (it's not something I've ever done.) I would suggest that if you make adjustments, use the DME on your second batch, not the Westy 12 batch, to increase the odds that you will hit the final gravity target.

Your ideal pre-boil gravity is going to depend on whether you are boiling down a portion of the wort into maltose syrup (which I stopped doing and CSI also stopping doing), your boil-off rate, etc. 1.065 will get you in the ballpark.
 
I've always just followed the recipe and put the sugar in toward the end of the boil.

A single infusion works great.

I don't see anything wrong with your plan to spit the batches between 1st and 2nd runnings, just do the calculations (it's not something I've ever done.) I would suggest that if you make adjustments, use the DME on your second batch, not the Westy 12 batch, to increase the odds that you will hit the final gravity target.

Your ideal pre-boil gravity is going to depend on whether you are boiling down a portion of the wort into maltose syrup (which I stopped doing and CSI also stopping doing), your boil-off rate, etc. 1.065 will get you in the ballpark.

Thanks! Good tip on hitting the Westy OG and modifying the English mild. Im not going to do the boil down. Doesnt seem necessary unless someone proves me different!

Im definitely worried about stalling the fermentation. Seems like a lot of folks are having problems hitting 1.012ish. Im thinking the early sugar add may be the culprit.

Thanks for the input!
 
Regarding the stalling, just make sure you make a huge starter. I did a stepped starter since all I had was a 2L flask. If you have a major blow off, have a way to reintroduce the yeast to the fermenter.
 
Im definitely worried about stalling the fermentation. Seems like a lot of folks are having problems hitting 1.012ish. Im thinking the early sugar add may be the culprit.

I was worried as well, but I followed csi's temp schedule to a tee and it worked wonder's so if you have a fermentation chamber I highly suggest doing that.

Also a big starter helps. I too only had a 2L flask so I stepped up the starter, chilled, decanted, and then just after mashing on brew day I draw off 1 L of pre-boiled wort, boil, chill, and pitch onto yeast. By the time I'm done brewing/cleaning I'm usually seeing a krausen form. Pitching that active starter has done wonders for my attenuation.
 
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1. I'll be brewing this tomorrow evening, I kicked off the yeast starter (~3 billion cells in a 6L starter for a 11G batch) yesterday (48 hours prior to pitching). Should I even bother cold crashing, or just dump the whole thing in after brewing tomorrow?

2. Will grolsch bottles stand up to this or do we HAVE to get the belgian bottles?
 
Grolsch bottles are thick and heavy and will safely hold about 4 volumes of CO2 based on my experience. That is about 1 volume more than a standard 12oz beer bottle. Be certain that the gaskets are in good shape to minimize oxygen ingress and CO2 loss.
 
Regarding the stalling, just make sure you make a huge starter. I did a stepped starter since all I had was a 2L flask. If you have a major blow off, have a way to reintroduce the yeast to the fermenter.
Yea i havent reintroduced yeast before, but im going to on this one
 
1. I'll be brewing this tomorrow evening, I kicked off the yeast starter (~3 billion cells in a 6L starter for a 11G batch) yesterday (48 hours prior to pitching). Should I even bother cold crashing, or just dump the whole thing in after brewing tomorrow?

I plan on dumping the whole thing.

2. Will grolsch bottles stand up to this or do we HAVE to get the belgian bottles?

I might be concerned with the flip top leaking pressure if you plan to age, but im not planning on using belgian bottles
 
I might be concerned with the flip top leaking pressure if you plan to age, but im not planning on using belgian bottles

Thanks, I'll dump too then. Was concerned about off flavours from the 6 liters of yeast starter, but being 11 gallons of strong dark ale should hopefully mask that.

hmmm, I am planning on aging a year.... what are you using instead of belgian bottles?
 
Thanks, I'll dump too then. Was concerned about off flavours from the 6 liters of yeast starter, but being 11 gallons of strong dark ale should hopefully mask that.

hmmm, I am planning on aging a year.... what are you using instead of belgian bottles?

FWIW I have a Brett rye saison I bottled a year ago in flip-tops and it's still perfectly well carbonated (to a desirable saison level, I might add).

Just make sure the seals are good.
 
Thanks, I'll dump too then. Was concerned about off flavours from the 6 liters of yeast starter, but being 11 gallons of strong dark ale should hopefully mask that.

hmmm, I am planning on aging a year.... what are you using instead of belgian bottles?
Im using bomber bottles. You're probably fine if the seals are good
 
2. Will grolsch bottles stand up to this or do we HAVE to get the belgian bottles?

As others have said the grolsch bottles will be fine, but from my experience with this batch, I ended up opting for lower carbonation than one would typically see in a Belgian. I found the finished product to taste just a wee bit thin for my liking, so I went and bled off a little bit of CO2 from the headspace of each bottle. My estimation is that each bottle is at about 2.3 carbs now and let me tell you, the flavor is unworldly. The plum and dark cherry notes just stick to your tongue, its unbelievable really. Next time I brew this I will be purposefully undercarbing for the style by a little bit.
 
Thanks again, really like troglodytes idea of carbing a bit lower. I might aim for about 2.6

Can anyone confirm for me there will be no issues with adding 6L of yeast starter that's been running for 48 hours to a 11G batch, with no cold crash? Reading on other subs has me worried about off flavors...
 
So if im making a second brew from the second runnings and i intend to use the first runnings and no sparge on the first batch of beer. Does that mean i should use approx 9.5 gallons of water for the first mash?? This assumes .125 gallons/Lbs of grain absorption w/ 15lbs of grain and aiming for 7.5 gallons of wort to boil.
 
Thanks again, really like troglodytes idea of carbing a bit lower. I might aim for about 2.6

Can anyone confirm for me there will be no issues with adding 6L of yeast starter that's been running for 48 hours to a 11G batch, with no cold crash? Reading on other subs has me worried about off flavors...
I would crash and then do a small vitality starter. Best of both worlds that way.
If you have a small flask(1-2L), just make the starter in that, chill, decant old starter liquid and add new starter to the 6L. It shouldn't take long for the yeast to get going. Couple of hours maybe.
 
Can anyone confirm for me there will be no issues with adding 6L of yeast starter that's been running for 48 hours to a 11G batch, with no cold crash? Reading on other subs has me worried about off flavors...

I've routinely pitched a 2L starter into a 5 gallon batch (at high krausen) without problems. Taste the starter. If it tastes OK there will be no problem. It will knock down the OG slightly if you don't adjust for that.
 
Hi all. after two weeks on WLP 530 in the primary (ramp the first week to 78F and then another week at 78F) gravity seems to have landed at 1.018 which I know is too high. What is the best course at this point? Rack to secondary and pitch fresh WLP 530? I'd appreciate any thoughts. Thanks.
 
I would crash and then do a small vitality starter. Best of both worlds that way.
If you have a small flask(1-2L), just make the starter in that, chill, decant old starter liquid and add new starter to the 6L. It shouldn't take long for the yeast to get going. Couple of hours maybe.

Thanks Jwin and Kee, I took advice. Crashed 24 hours, warmed, then decanted ALL of the slurry (minor yeast lost) and pitched a new fresh pack of 1762 in as well.

I dumped the yeast into a few litres of wort to really get them going before pitching. Super healthy fermentation for 36 hours now, with a slow rise from 68F to 81F.
IMG_1520205261.557159.jpg
 
Those of you that successfully made this clone do you rack and cool the beer before reaching terminal gravity or do you just let it sit in the primary at a high temp until you know it is finished and they yeast have had time to clean up after themselves

I am interested because I went to Westmalle’s website and read about their brewing process they say that 80% Of fermentation is done in primary then they transfer to a separate tank and cool to 50 and let it finish. Why would they do that? Every thing that I read tells you to never transfer unless its done
 
Hi all. after two weeks on WLP 530 in the primary (ramp the first week to 78F and then another week at 78F) gravity seems to have landed at 1.018 which I know is too high. What is the best course at this point? Rack to secondary and pitch fresh WLP 530? I'd appreciate any thoughts. Thanks.

That's where I ended and my beer is too sweet. I used 3787 and it just crapped out and wouldn't go any lower, despite ramping to 80 F over the course of a week. I'd say make a WLP 530 starter, then when it's going strong add 1 cup of your wort to get the starter used to high alcohol levels, let it ferment a little longer, then pitch into your racked beer.

I wish my beer had ended more around 1.008-1.010. I was surprised by the high ending gravity given that I pitched on a HUGE and fresh yeast cake.
 
I am interested because I went to Westmalle’s website and read about their brewing process they say that 80% Of fermentation is done in primary then they transfer to a separate tank and cool to 50 and let it finish. Why would they do that? Every thing that I read tells you to never transfer unless its done

Doesn't seem like they could be doing that with "trappist" yeast based on our experiences with stuck fermentations! Perhaps they pitch a different yeast with a higher alcohol tolerance. A wine yeast strain would easily finish off any simple sugars in a 10% ABV beer, I have done this several times with saisons that contain adjuncts. 71B is my go-to strain for such a purpose.
 
Doesn't seem like they could be doing that with "trappist" yeast based on our experiences with stuck fermentations! Perhaps they pitch a different yeast with a higher alcohol tolerance. A wine yeast strain would easily finish off any simple sugars in a 10% ABV beer, I have done this several times with saisons that contain adjuncts. 71B is my go-to strain for such a purpose.

I don’t think I will ever try it


https://www.trappistwestmalle.be/en/brewing-process?agecheck=plus18
 
The next time I brew this I am either going to pitch at 64 let it sit for 2 days then let the yeast rise to whatever temp it wants and hold it and pray I dont make paint thinner or incrementally feed the wort the syrup during fermentation
 
The next time I brew this I am either going to pitch at 64 let it sit for 2 days then let the yeast rise to whatever temp it wants and hold it and pray I dont make paint thinner or incrementally feed the wort the syrup during fermentation

The guys at LHBS said to add the majority of the syrup when transferring to secondary so that all the maltose gets eatin up. I put 1Lbs in the boil and going to add another 2Lbs to secondary
 
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