Belgian Dark Strong Ale Westvleteren 12 Clone - Multiple Award Winner

[j616s]

My wife and I brewed Saq's revised recipe for the pre-2014 Westvleteren 12 on Sunday. Pretty much went without a hitch. We ended up with a SG of 1.085 going in so added 2/3 of a pouch of Simplicity we had left over from priming the previous batch. This put us bang on 1.090.

Very full mash!

The boildown of the first runnings into a syrup. Next time we do this, I might try something I saw on a TV where people were making boiled sweets. They used a brush and water to regularly coat the exposed sides of the pan to stop the syrup sticking to the sides.

The break material was VERY dense on this one. Made for some interesting patterns as it wrinkled over itself.

The syrup from the boildown going in. Excuse my windowsill.

This is the ferm today. The kraeusen keeps creeping up the blowoff but hasn't made it to the kraeusen-catcher yet.

I also decided to start doing forced-ferment tests on my batches so I can diagnose any ferments that finish high. Here it is when I put it on.

And here it is a day later... Complete with tin-foil tray to catch the mess. The glass at the side is the left over sample. It had yeast in it at this point and was also fermenting quite happily. We had a taste before pouring it. Pleasingly nutty at this stage

I've got high hopes for this. The samples were a lot more complex from the malts. The current Westy mainly lets the yeast and candi syrups shine with their stone fruits. I think this version will add a more malty/bready character. Will have to see which we prefer and decide which to brew about 2 years before we run out of bottles

 

[catdaddy66]

My brother and I just began the lagering phase on Saturday, and it will sit for 45 glorious days at at a glorious 45°.

Should be quite tasty!

 

[oceanic_brew]

Would anyone recommend reading this entire thread before I brew this. I'll put off brewing for a day if it's worth it.

I hate reading a thread after I've brewed and realizing that people are trying a new approach and are successful.

 

[tjosborne]

Would anyone recommend reading this entire thread before I brew this. I'll put off brewing for a day if it's worth it.

I hate reading a thread after I've brewed and realizing that people are trying a new approach and are successful.

Lots of good info here. I went back and read it all, that was a year ago as well though too. A lot more to catch up on now, but I still would if you have the time.

 

[Kee]

Would anyone recommend reading this entire thread before I brew this. I'll put off brewing for a day if it's worth it.

I hate reading a thread after I've brewed and realizing that people are trying a new approach and are successful.

You can just follow the recipe and have excellent results. CSI did tweek a few things, like 2 lb. D-180 for the 5.5 gallon batch (instead of 2.5), and he stopped doing the boil-down for the maltose syrup.

If there is one thing that he emphasized over and over, it's pitch enough healthy yeast and let the wort temperature rise. I've never had much trouble with this yeast but others have.

FWIW, the long bulk aging is more for clarity than anything else, so I cut the schedule short and still like the results.

 

[Oldskewl]

Ditto what Kee said.

Also I would recommend a large(half gallon) kraussen catcher and the ability to reintroduce the yeast to the fermentation vessel. Even with close to 2 gal of headroom, I had several blow-offs.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Ditto what Kee said.

Also I would recommend a large(half gallon) kraussen catcher and the ability to reintroduce the yeast to the fermentation vessel. Even with close to 2 gal of headroom, I had several blow-offs.

This was by far the most active yeast I've ever worked with. I inserted the widest diameter tube directly in the mouth of the carboy and inserted the other end in a small bucket of water as high above the carboy as possible. Even then, the yeast rose more than half-way up the tube. It beats a krausen device since the yeast is constantly being re-introduced back into the wort, is simple, and cost-effective.

 

[Kee]

This was by far the most active yeast I've ever worked with. I inserted the widest diameter tube directly in the mouth of the carboy and inserted the other end in a small bucket of water as high above the carboy as possible. Even then, the yeast rose more than half-way up the tube. It beats a krausen device since the yeast is constantly being re-introduced back into the wort, is simple, and cost-effective.

I like that idea. And giving the yeast a LOT of room is probably the first point to make about this recipe. I was wrong more than once saying to myself "surly this time I have enough headspace".

 

[oceanic_brew]

Thanks for the tips everyone! I'm brewing right now. I've completely switched to brewing only Belgian styles, almost through BLAM, read Yeast. Drank every Trappist I could get my hands on. Got 350 billion WL530 cells ready.

I Think I'm ready! Hahaha

As many others have said thanks for the thorough and well laid out details.

 

[oceanic_brew]

I could only get my hands on a one lb bottle of dark Belgian candi syrup but I decided to make some candi sugar myself. I didn't get it dark enough so I also did the boil down of the first runnings but I still only got a very deep amber beer.

Everything else went smooth so I'll just have a beer that's a little lighter in color and some loss of flavors due to not having the real dark Belgian. Candy.

It's still amazing how dark and rich this beer is with just base malts. There's something to be said about that simplicity of recipe but complexity in technique.

Most of my Belgians utilize nearly 5 malt varieties.

 

[j616s]

It's still amazing how dark and rich this beer is with just base malts. There's something to be said about that simplicity of recipe but complexity in technique.

Most of my Belgians utilize nearly 5 malt varieties.

The clone of the pre-2014 version of the Westy contains 7 different malts + syrups & boildown! You can certainly tell from the flavour going in to the fermenter.

 

[oceanic_brew]

The clone of the pre-2014 version of the Westy contains 7 different malts + syrups & boildown! You can certainly tell from the flavour going in to the fermenter.

Haha wow. I'm definitely going to be using this brew as a benchmark design for my future Belgians.

Not that I'm against using a lot of different malts but my brewing experience is not at the point where I would be able to tell a pound of Munich from a 1/2 pound of caravienne.

I would like to make complex beers from simpler ingredient lists and then build out from there.

 

[Kee]

Haha wow. I'm definitely going to be using this brew as a benchmark design for my future Belgians.

Not that I'm against using a lot of different malts but my brewing experience is not at the point where I would be able to tell a pound of Munich from a 1/2 pound of caravienne.

I would like to make complex beers from simpler ingredient lists and then build out from there.

It's counter-intuitive, but simple recipes can have complex flavors, and vice-versa. I usually use a single malt recipe for this beer.

http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/0/3/5/6035776/westvleteren_12_clone_-_single_malt_040.pdf

 

[catdaddy66]

It's counter-intuitive, but simple recipes can have complex flavors, and vice-versa. I usually use a single malt recipe for this beer.

http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/0/3/5/6035776/westvleteren_12_clone_-_single_malt_040.pdf

I agree. The first time I made this my friend, whose knowledge and opinion I greatly respect, told me that a more complex grain bill was what would give all the complexity. We used that recipe (#2) and it was awesome. Then I used #1 and was also phenomenal!

Six of one and a half dozen of another...

 

[Kee]

I agree. The first time I made this my friend, whose knowledge and opinion I greatly respect, told me that a more complex grain bill was what would give all the complexity. We used that recipe (#2) and it was awesome. Then I used #1 and was also phenomenal!

Six of one and a half dozen of another...

I've tried different versions of the Westy 12 clone, and they are all worked out nicely. It comes down to individual preference and execution.

 

[oceanic_brew]

So life got in the way a bit during the process of brewing this. I won't get into it but I haven't been 100% lately.

I didn't get the color I wanted to achieve since I couldn't source dark enough sugar, didn't get dark enough on the boil down. Not really a big deal.

I could have used a 2 hr boil, ended up with extra volume and as a result only hit about 1.076

I ended up having to pitch about 3L of starter wort in along with the brew. For some reason I didn't plan ahead and have any of my stainless fermentation vessels ready so I racked to a carboy and then laughed at myself since there was basically no head space.

I then had to rack back to a plastic bucket.



I rigged up a sanitary device to catch the yeast and away I went. I normally never check gravity anymore until before kegging but since the lid was off I was happy to test and see it down to 1.010 after 4 days.

I decided to reintroduce the blown out yeast but first I mixed it with another pound of Dark Belgian candi syrup and some yeast nutrient.

Well... about 12 hrs from that it was spewing yeast straight out of the s-type airlock. Had to remove the lid and use a new one. Hopefully didn't contaminate.

It's actually insane how good the hydro sample tasted. Wow!

 

[Jwin]

So life got in the way a bit during the process of brewing this. I won't get into it but I haven't been 100% lately.

I didn't get the color I wanted to achieve since I couldn't source dark enough sugar, didn't get dark enough on the boil down. Not really a big deal.

I could have used a 2 hr boil, ended up with extra volume and as a result only hit about 1.076

I ended up having to pitch about 3L of starter wort in along with the brew. For some reason I didn't plan ahead and have any of my stainless fermentation vessels ready so I racked to a carboy and then laughed at myself since there was basically no head space.

I then had to rack back to a plastic bucket.



I rigged up a sanitary device to catch the yeast and away I went. I normally never check gravity anymore until before kegging but since the lid was off I was happy to test and see it down to 1.010 after 4 days.

I decided to reintroduce the blown out yeast but first I mixed it with another pound of Dark Belgian candi syrup and some yeast nutrient.

Well... about 12 hrs from that it was spewing yeast straight out of the s-type airlock. Had to remove the lid and use a new one. Hopefully didn't contaminate.

It's actually insane how good the hydro sample tasted. Wow!

Hope it all comes out great! Some(not all) of my best beers have had major "Oh S***" moments. Footnote, not all of those moments have made great beer either...

I've been watching the tread for a year or so
This is on my list for later in the fall as a parti-gyle(ask me about my YUGE mash tun)
Never had the opportunity to partake the original but have thoroughly enjoyed several Rocheforts
Is this comparable?

 

[j616s]

I've been watching the tread for a year or so
This is on my list for later in the fall as a parti-gyle(ask me about my YUGE mash tun)
Never had the opportunity to partake the original but have thoroughly enjoyed several Rocheforts
Is this comparable?

I've heard people try parti-gyle with this beer before with varying success. There just isn't much sugars left in the grain after the sparge in this recipe. But let us know how it goes for you if you try

Closest beer to this you might be able to get hold of easily is the ABT12. The brewers of the ABT12 used to brew Westvleteren 12 until the trappist guidelines meant they had to bring it in house. This has lead many to speculate they're born out of the same beer. Some misinterpret it as them being the same beer. They're not. The Westy is drier. That said having tasted the sample from the pre-2014 recipe last night, that's a lot closer to a refined ABT12 that the current recipe. The current recipe really showcases the yeast, syrup, and technique. The pre-2014 is a showcase for EVERYTHING! Waaaay more malt character. I can see why people might have struggled to tell the difference between the pre-2014 recipe and the ABT12 but not the current recipe. Anyway. Bit of a ramble there. This beer really is on its own. I don't know of any other beer on the market that I would specifically say is like it. The slightly odd syrup adjuncts, the strict yeast schedule, and the long ageing process all lead to a very special beer unlike most out there.

 

[Jwin]

I've heard people try parti-gyle with this beer before with varying success. There just isn't much sugars left in the grain after the sparge in this recipe. But let us know how it goes for you if you try

Closest beer to this you might be able to get hold of easily is the ABT12. The brewers of the ABT12 used to brew Westvleteren 12 until the trappist guidelines meant they had to bring it in house. This has lead many to speculate they're born out of the same beer. Some misinterpret it as them being the same beer. They're not. The Westy is drier. That said having tasted the sample from the pre-2014 recipe last night, that's a lot closer to a refined ABT12 that the current recipe. The current recipe really showcases the yeast, syrup, and technique. The pre-2014 is a showcase for EVERYTHING! Waaaay more malt character. I can see why people might have struggled to tell the difference between the pre-2014 recipe and the ABT12 but not the current recipe. Anyway. Bit of a ramble there. This beer really is on its own. I don't know of any other beer on the market that I would specifically say is like it. The slightly odd syrup adjuncts, the strict yeast schedule, and the long ageing process all lead to a very special beer unlike most out there.

I can get st bernardus here in TN so I'll definitely pick one up. Thanks for the info.
In regards to the gyle, I'll do a full volume mash for the westy, then do one huge batch sparge for the second. I may add first runnings off the sparge if gravity comes up short, then just add boil time as needed. I've acquired everything needed except the yeast which I'll probably have to order by mail so I'll wait until it is a bit cooler weather to do so.
I've done several successful gyle brew days off of big brews before, so I don't think it will be much issue. The joys of having a 37g mash tun
I've got some saphir hops I've been wanting to play with. May be a good opportunity.

 

[Jwin]

Got just about everything ready to go for this
Gonna have to sub northern brewer for the bittering addition.
Also, need a sub for styrian goldings. The last LHBS in Nashville had neither SG or brewers gold. Would Willamette be okay?
I think I have some ekg as well?
Thanks in advance

 

[griffi]

Any chance they have celeia? Virtually same thing as styrian goldings

 

[Kee]

Got just about everything ready to go for this
Gonna have to sub northern brewer for the bittering addition.
Also, need a sub for styrian goldings. The last LHBS in Nashville had neither SG or brewers gold. Would Willamette be okay?
I think I have some ekg as well?
Thanks in advance

Hallertau works well. Probably any noble hops, although I haven't used all of them.

 

[Jwin]

Any chance they have celeia? Virtually same thing as styrian goldings

They did, but I didn't grab any

Hallertau works well. Probably any noble hops, although I haven't used all of them.

Cool
I'll probably just roll with what I have then. Or maybe split the hallertau and williamette between the flavor and aroma additions
It's not like the hops are playing a huge role here.

 

[Jwin]

Another question.
What is the target carbonation on this?
3/3.5?
I don't have 10g of heavy bottles unless I put it all in 1l ezcaps.
It seems 3 is the max that is recommended for standard longnecks. Would 3 be acceptable?
I plan to bulk age/cold condition in two purged kegs(closed loop transfer) with a bit of priming sugar and cbc1. Just enough for O2 scrubbing. Then bottle with the blichmann gun into bottles with carb drops shaken in CBC.
I figure the initial priming amount will depend on target volume minus carb drop contribution. Should provide the O2 scrubbing in the keg and hopefully just enough foam in the bottles to push out extra O2 there.

Anyone see issue with this method?
Sorry if I didn't explain it clearly. It makes sense in my head.

 

[j616s]

Another question.
What is the target carbonation on this?
3/3.5?
I don't have 10g of heavy bottles unless I put it all in 1l ezcaps.
It seems 3 is the max that is recommended for standard longnecks. Would 3 be acceptable?
I plan to bulk age/cold condition in two purged kegs(closed loop transfer) with a bit of priming sugar and cbc1. Just enough for O2 scrubbing. Then bottle with the blichmann gun into bottles with carb drops shaken in CBC.
I figure the initial priming amount will depend on target volume minus carb drop contribution. Should provide the O2 scrubbing in the keg and hopefully just enough foam in the bottles to push out extra O2 there.

Anyone see issue with this method?
Sorry if I didn't explain it clearly. It makes sense in my head.

You might find the round-up of the pre-cursor to this thread at the top of page 3 helpful. Lots of info on bottling including details on re-pitching etc.

 

[Kee]

Another question.
What is the target carbonation on this?
3/3.5?
I don't have 10g of heavy bottles unless I put it all in 1l ezcaps.
It seems 3 is the max that is recommended for standard longnecks. Would 3 be acceptable?

Anyone see issue with this method?
Sorry if I didn't explain it clearly. It makes sense in my head.

I've never bulk aged the way you described, but to answer the carbonation question, 3 volumes is not too much for standard bottles or for this recipe, but probably slightly more than a Westy 12. I've carbonated from 2.8 all the way to 3.5 (in Belgian bottles), but usually about 3 volumes.

 

[Jwin]

Thanks
I'll check it out.
Sorry if any of that wasn't clear. I was researching this brew with a few Abt 12s last night.

 

[yono1986]

I've been slowly lowering the temperature for the secondary and I just saw that I sucked up ~1 quart of starsan/blow off mess. What if anything can I do to salvage the batch?

 

[Kee]

I've been slowly lowering the temperature for the secondary and I just saw that I sucked up ~1 quart of starsan/blow off mess. What if anything can I do to salvage the batch?

One quart doesn't sound like a lot (was that a 5 gallon batch?). Here's a good discussion about a similar incident:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=482235

 

[Oldskewl]

I've been slowly lowering the temperature for the secondary and I just saw that I sucked up ~1 quart of starsan/blow off mess. What if anything can I do to salvage the batch?

I had this happen on one of my early batches of brew. It turned out fine. Not much you can do at this point but wait and see.