Westvleteran 12 Clone recipe

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gsmith12

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So I've been searching for a solid Westvleteran 12 extract recipe (I'm still somewhat of a newbie and I live in a small apartment, All-Grain isn't in the cards just yet), there really isn't one out there. I've been searching a bit and so far this is what I have...

Westvleteran 12 Clone (Extract)
5 Gallon Batch
2.5 Gallon Boil

Grains/Malts
6.6lbs- Light/Pale Malt Extract (LME)
6.6lbs- Pilsner Malt Extract (LME)
1lb- Belgian CaraMunich
.44lb- Belgian Biscuit
.31lb- Belgian Aromic
.25lb- Belgian Special B.
.19lb- Chocolate
.25lb-Amber Rock Candi
1lb- 1 Bottle of Dark Belgian Candi Sryup (Added 24 hours after sitting in primary)

Hops
1.25 oz Styrian Golding (60 min)
.25 oz Styrian Golding (15 min)
.25 oz Haullertauer (15 min)
.25 oz Styrian Golding (1 min)
.25 oz Haullertaur (1 min)

Yeast
White Labs 530 Abbey Yeast

Bottling
Belgian Candy Sugar (Priming)

Tasty Brew recipe calculator said:
OG 1.109
FG 1.027
IBU 25
ABV 10.6%
SRM 37

So now here come the questions..
1. I've read a few clone recipes that recommend Northern Brewer hops, should I add that to my list or is that too much?
2. What are some good Pale LME extract brands, and some Pilsner LME extract brands that would work for this recipe?

So this is what I got. I drank the Westvleteran 12 a year ago and loved it. I have one more sitting in a cool, but not too cool place ready to taste again. I want to wait and drink it after this brew so I can decide how close or not close I am to the original. If you guys see something that could be changed I'd appreciate it.

Here's the links to the clone recipes I worked mine off of (basically the same), they deserve the credit cause I wouldn't know where to start.

http://hopville.com/recipe/192490/belgian-dark-strong-ale-recipes/westvleteren-12-pseudo-clone

http://www.bblodge.info/Homebrew-Resources/westvleteren-apt-12-clone-recipe.html

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f73/westvleteren-12-clone-81698/

http://homebrewingadventures.blogspot.com/2007/04/westvleteren-abt-12-clone-recipe.html
 
From what I have read they get all of their color from dark candi syrup (their malt bill is just pils and pale). Their OG and FG are much lowe rthan you have them. I don't think they add aroma hops.

The key is going to be the fermentation, pithcing enough yeast, starting them cool, letting them warm up as fermentation goes. Westy gives the beer a few weeks at cool (~50 F) temperatures after fermentation to settle/clear before reyeasting and bottling.

Good luck!
 
I would also go with the simpler recipe of pale/pils + D2 syrup. You want the beer to finish pretty low. I believe most of the recipes shoot for a FG of around 1.014 with an OG ~1.090. Start your fermentation in the mid 60's and let it warm up into the 80's.

-chuck
 
Check the fermentability of your extract. Most extracts won't be able to get the kind of attenuation you're looking for out of a Belgian, especially a higher gravity one like this.

Here's the secret though man; you can make the extract more fermentable by "steeping" some plain old 2-row at 149 for 30-45 minutes in the kettle. The enzymes from the 2-row will convert the longer-chain sugars in the extract to maltose making your wort more fermentable.
 
Forgot to add, I wouldn't do any late hop additions for a Dark Strong like this either. You don't want any pronounced hop flavor.
 
Okay so I'll work at bringing the gravity down and making the recipe a bit simpler. Do I keep primary fermentation low (50's-60's) and then gradually increase the temp (80's) in the primary, or do I do some of that in the secondary? Thanks for the help!
 
I would get it up to 80 (actual temp of beer) about 3 days aftr the start of fermentation. You don't want it climbing much higher than that, so keep an eye on it. Leave it there until the gravity stops dropping, then rack to secondary.
 
gsmith12 said:
Okay so I'll work at bringing the gravity down and making the recipe a bit simpler. Do I keep primary fermentation low (50's-60's) and then gradually increase the temp (80's) in the primary, or do I do some of that in the secondary? Thanks for the help!
Click to expand...

You'll want to pitch at the low end in the primary, at 65-66, and raise the temps up to 75-77 over the course of a week. If it hasn't attenuated to the desired gravity by day 8-9 you can bump it up a few more degrees but I wouldn't take it past 80.
 
Okay so pitch yeast low to mid 60's, then gradually raise temps 75-77, 80 being the highest, then when gravity stops and stays constant transfer to secondary. I think I got it!

I plan on doing this brew in a month or two, so until then I'll work up another simpler recipe and post it with the lower gravity readings. Thanks guys!
 
82-84 is what Westy targets. You also need approximately 18% dark candi syrup, make your own or buy it. I agree to go simple but there is more than one way to skin a cat. Pitch plenty of yeast. This thing needs a ton. Make sure you have temperature control before you begin and realize that making a beer like this is not for beginners and can be a learning experience for veterans as well. Getting the FG low will probably be your biggest challenge in doing this with extract.
 
So rjwhite41, should I add two White Lab 530's? Expensive I know, but worth it? As for the dark candi syrup, 18% is what's needed? My recipe is only about 6% with 1 16oz bottle. I've read to add it 24 hours after sitting in the primary, what do you think? Should I add it to the boil with the amber candi sugar instead of the primary?

I hear what you're saying with this beer being a learning experience. I've done research on and off for the last week deciding if this even makes sense. Thanks for the help.
 
No I hadn't seen the thread smokinghole, thank you. It helps too because even though it's all-grain I see where he cut back. Compared to the other recipes which had close to 17lbs of Pilsner he had only 13 or so. It'll be hard to cut my OG using extract, but I probably don't need 13-15lbs of it.
 
gsmith12 said:
So rjwhite41, should I add two White Lab 530's? Expensive I know, but worth it? As for the dark candi syrup, 18% is what's needed? My recipe is only about 6% with 1 16oz bottle. I've read to add it 24 hours after sitting in the primary, what do you think? Should I add it to the boil with the amber candi sugar instead of the primary?

I hear what you're saying with this beer being a learning experience. I've done research on and off for the last week deciding if this even makes sense. Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

For yeast you are going to need a very big starter. I've got a similar recipe as the one in the thread that was referenced by smokinghole in my primary right now. OG was 1.094. I stepped up from .5 qt (old yeast) to 2 qt to 6 qt for my starter and that's not enough yeast. At 1.090 you will need 6.6 liter starter with the freshest yeast or 3.5 vials. At 1.109 as your recipe is you will a 9.9 liter starter or 4.2 vials. Go here to figure out how much yeast you need. The cheapest way to do it is to do a smaller beer and pitch on the cake. If you don't have enough yeast you risk it stalling out on you so yes it is worth it. By the way, if I had to do it again I would split the wort between 2 6.5 gallon carboys with only 3 gallons in each. This thing kicks off a huge krausen so use some fermcaps and a blowoff tube.

Don't use amber candi sugar, use D2 or a homemade equivalent. I used 3 pounds of D2 in mine and I threw it in at the beginning of the boil. Some people stage it during fermentation but the OP in the pious thread said he quit doing that after he found residual sugar in the bottom of his fermenter. Now he throws it in at flameout. If you boil it you will get a darkening of the wort and the flavor will change a little due to extra mallaird reactions.

FYI, I ended up at this site because I was looking for a recipe for a Belgian Dark Strong and I found the Westy clone on Google while doing research. This beer involves a lot of effort and a lot of expense. My brew day start to finish was around 10 hours long, The cost is in the $70 range and I won't even taste it until winter. I've been brewing for 13 years or so and this is the most difficult beer I have ever made. I made some IIPA's to get used to the big grain bill and the problems associated with high gravity brewing first. I learned more on that batch then I've learned on any beer since my first.

Here's another thread where Saq creates his recipe with tons of information and a commentary from some people during their creation of it. I recommend you read this thread and the Pious thread. Be prepared before you begin. Good luck and let everyone know how it turns out because this is a test of your brewing skills.:mug:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/westvleteren-12-group-brew-swap-121429/

If you want to have a look at my recipe it is here. Like I said it is still going so the FG is not put in yet but I hope to finish somewhere around 1.014. If you have any more questions you can pm me, post here or post in the pious thread where you can have tons of people who have done this help you (just so you know, Saq will tell you not to do it until you can do all grain).
 
For comparison sake. I pitched a meager 1.5L starter in my 5.5gallon batch of 1.094 OG following the Pious recipe and it stalled at 1.024. It was definitely still too sweet at the gravity. I alos had the temp control to ramp up to 82F in the first 36 hours and the yeast was VERY active.

Needless to say, this beer got the Orval dreg treatment and is quite tasty with some Brett funk. Next time I try it I will grow up an appropriate amount of yeast starter to try and get the FG lower.

-chuck
 
I'm very worried that mine will suffer the same fate twigboy2000. I got mine up to 84 F by day 3.
 
After reading Brew Like a Monk I got the impression that many of the belgian brewers pitch 75% of the yeast typically pitched, for insurance purposes I'd go up to 80%. Plus I think Westvleteran is still open fermented. Either way if you have a stir plate at all you would need a 2.2-2.5L starter with a stirplate. I have this in the plans for brewing but I need to rebuild my stirrer to utilize two separate fans so I can run two 2L flasks at the same time. Temp control for this is as easy as using an aquarium heater I have. I also have plans to do a ferm chamber with a old fridge that I could then use for the cooler temp conditioning period later on.

If I were to do this extract I would do at least a partial mash. Then I would watch the ferment. If you don't get low enough you can either try a little amylase enzyme to knock a few points off or a secondary belgian yeast that has a hungrier appetite to drop it down the last few points.

That thread I linked to is a great resource read through it a few times before spending the cash on this brew.
 
I apologize, I assumed since you were doing partial mash that you didn't have a stir plate or temp control. An aquarium heater will be fine and do the starter. I wouldn't worry about the 75% number you state (which is accurate), pitch plenty of yeast. I don't believe underpitching does that much for you and neither does ommengang. They did tests and said they couldn't tell the difference. I wouldn't add the amylase but that's just me. Sounds like you have all tools to do this. Go for it!
 
Okay guys I've read a lot of the stuff you guys posted and have come up with two recipes. A revised recipe of the one I previously posted, and a simpler one. (I can't do a partial mash 'cause the gf won't let me buy anymore stuff in our already packed 2 bedroom apartment, or I would be doing an All-Grain batch instead of Extract)

Westvleteran 12 Clone Revised Original (From what I've read this is more the "New World" recipe)
5 Gallon batch
2.5 Gallon boil

OG 1.097
FG 1.021
Color 32
IBU 15.5
ABV 10.1%

Malts/Grains

5lbs Light/Pale LME (Boil)
5lbs Pilsner LME (Boil)
2lbs Candi Sugar Dark (Boil)
1lb Belgian CaraMunich (Steep)
7oz Belgian Biscuit (Steep)
5oz Belgian Aromatic (Steep)
4oz Belgian Special B (Steep)
4oz Candi Amber Sugar (Boil)
3oz Chocolate Malt (Steep)

Hops

2oz Styrian Goldings (60min)
.75oz Styrian Goldings (15min)
.75oz Hallertaur Hersbrucker (15min)
.50oz Styrian Goldings (1min)
.50oz Hallertaur Hersbrucker (1min)

Yeast:WLP 530

Westvleteran 12 Clone 'Simpler Recipe' (This is more the Pious Traditional Recipe from what I've read)
5 Gallon Batch
2.5 Gallon Boil

OG 1.097
FG 1.021
Color 23
IBU 25.9 (I can bring it down to 13.3 by using 1oz of hops, what do you guys think?)
ABV 10.1%

Malts

5lbs Light/Pale LME
5lbs Pilsner LME
3lbs Candi Sugar Syrup D2
3lb of sugar (1 pound in the beginning of boil, then 1 more pound last 5, then 1 more pound in secondary)

Hops

2oz Northern Brewer
2oz Styrian Goldings
2oz Hallertaur Hersbrucker

Yeast: WLP 530

Okay so I'll be doing a yeast starter with 3 vials of WLP 530. I don't know if cutting the LME down 2lbs or so will be a good thing or not, what do you guys think? I really don't know how else to bring the OG down without taking some away.

I know I still have a lot more research to do before I start this brew too. I just bought, 'Brew Like A Monk', online so I'll be reading that before I start the brew and then I'll have even more information to work with. I'm hoping to brew within 2 weeks. I'm sure these recipes still need some tweaking, and thats where you guys come in ;). Thanks rjwhite41, smokinghole, twigboy2000, Oldsock, and DannPM. This has been super helpful.
 
Amount Item Type % or IBU
6 lbs LME Golden Light (Briess) (4.0 SRM) Extract 40.00 %
6 lbs LME Pilsen Light (Briess) (2.3 SRM) Extract 40.00 %
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (90 min) Hops 20.8 IBU
2.00 oz Styrian Goldings [2.60 %] (20 min) Hops 7.2 IBU
0.50 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (20 min) Hops 3.3 IBU
3 lbs Belgian Candi Syrup Dark 2 (100.0 SRM) Sugar 20.00 %
1 Pkgs Abbey Ale (White Labs #WLP530) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.091 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.092 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.021 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 9.16 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 10.49 %
Bitterness: 31.4 IBU Calories: 422 cal/pint
Est Color: 23.7 SRM Color:


How's that sound. The recipe you have above has way too much hops that much hops has you pushing 60IBUs. Plus you have 3lbs too much of sugar which I'm sure was a mistake. If you have 6lbs of each extract you should hit your gravity between that and your sugar.
 
I like the recipe smokinghole, it's simple and I don't want to spend too much right now then possibly screw something up. I'll try the more advanced recipe when I have the ability to do all-grain and a few more brews under my belt. I'll keep everyone updated on how it turns out.
 
rjwhite41 said:
I've seen that spec sheet too but it's wrong. I just bought some a couple of weeks ago and it's 160 SRM. The belgian dark is 80.
Click to expand...

I just got some today and yeah it is 160 srm. That spec sheet made me check the label on the one I bought :)
 
3 lbs is fine. You can also mix it up. I was wrong when I said I used 3 lbs of syrup, I used 4 (remember it's all about percentages though). I used 2 lbs D2 and 2 lbs of dark. Westy 12 is a pretty dark brew, Porter dark.
 
If I properly understand the history and naming of Trappist beer, the Monks measured gravity in what they called Belgian Degrees. For example, a beer with an OG of 1.080 would be represented as 8 Belgian Degrees. The beers were named based on that number of "degrees." Thus, I expect that Westvleteren 12 likely had an OG of 1.120.

coming soon...to a fridge near you!
 
If Westvleteran had an OG of around 1.120 and the normal terminal gravity of under 1.020 you'd have a beer that's 14%-15% abv. You can certainly make a brew up to mimic those numbers and I don't think it'd be a bad beer at all.
 
smokinghole said:
If Westvleteran had an OG of around 1.120 and the normal terminal gravity of under 1.020 you'd have a beer that's 14%-15% abv. You can certainly make a brew up to mimic those numbers and I don't think it'd be a bad beer at all.
Click to expand...

No doubt, she'd be a monster. Does Westvleteren release the FG numbers? Alot of the Trappists get around 80-85 percent attenuation per some books I've read. 1.020 from 1.120 would be about 83 percent attenuation. I'd be willing to bet the FG is in the high 20's.

coming soon...to a fridge near you!
 
oh man, I got a hold of two bottles of Westie 12. It's really good, even better when aged. While the price you'll likely pay if you buy it in america via certain online markets may lead to unattainable expectations, I would wholly recommend finding a bottle just so you can see what the few folks are talking about. It's a great beer.

In mine I noted complex caramel, banana, a distinct rumminess, notes of burnt sugar, raisin, maybe a hint of apricot or dried fruit. Alcohol is almost reticent to announce itself and when it does, it's very shy for being 10.2%. Dry but still retains a fitting body. Carbonation is moderate. Very digestible, as the monks would say. Darker in color than chimay blue.
 
Okay I finally got everything, as well as read BLAM ten times over. $90+ dollars later I'm ready to go. I'll continue to post till I get a chance to taste the brew in a couple of months incase anyone else want to try it. Thanks again everyone who helped me with the Westy clone.
 
On the previous batch of a belgian style IPA (9,7% ABV) I saved a bit of wort in the begging, put it in the freezer.

When the fermentation started to slow down (about 1.030 grav), I top cropped a couple of spoons of yeast and made a 2l starter (1.040 grav), and pitched it in the fermenter at peak activity. The beer went down to 1.012 in 3 days.
 
Thanks for the tip caiafa, I wouldn't even think about doing that. Anything that speeds up fermentation in the primary is ideal. Thanks again.
 
Okay so I did the brew...I'm not sure what I did but my OG came out 1.060. I wasn't expecting perfection even after all this help and study from BLAM. The color is 30-34 SRM. I don't know if that's close or not. I thought it was more in the 40 range (black).

So my recipe...(basically the one that smokinghole recommended)

Westvleteran 12 Extract
5 Gallons Spring Water
1.5 Gallon Boil
(2 Liter Starter prepared with 2 vials of White Labs 530 4 days before brew)

6lbs Pilsner LME (90 min boil)
5lbs Light LME (90 min boil)
3lbs D2 Candi Syrup (90 min boil)
.5lb Special B (Steeped at 155 for 30 minutes)
1oz Northern Brewer (90 min)
2oz of Styrian Goldings (20 min)
.5oz Hallertaur (20 min)

The brew has been gradually increasing temp. Started around 63 degrees, about 73 degrees now, then 80's on day 4 of primary fermentations to drop my gravity.
On day 3 my 6.5 gallon carboy is nearly filled to the top with krausen. It seems to have a nice dark color, but idk if it's what I want. I haven't had a real Westy for 2 years. But it looks good, and it was fun to brew.
 

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