Westmalle (Wyeast 3787/WLP530) Impressions

[philosofool]

Westmalle yeast is the origin of the Wyeast 3787 strain. Can anyone share their experiences with this yeast, aka, "Trappist High Gravity"?

It's also the WLP530 "Abbey Ale Yeast", so impressions of that would be valued as well.

In Abbey/Trappist beers, I like my phenolics subtle and my esters medium to medium-high and I definitely ferment my belgians cooler than many homebrewers. But mostly I just want to hear about your results. I don't care about lag time, but if it's finicky, let me know.

 

[atom]

I've used 530...it's a slow yeast. took a month to chew through a tripel (1.084>1.010). it likes to be in the low 70s, at least to finish...i'll start it in the mid 60s and let it rise.

 

[Conman13]

I've used it to brew a patersbier and a belgian dubbel. This strain definitely needs time.

I have found that this strain really evolves over time. It takes a long time to develop the most balanced, clean belgian flavors. My patersbier had a more crisp, bitter taste to it for the first month in the keg. After about 6 weeks however, it started to mellow out some more and the belgian banana/clove notes started to come through more. I also had this in secondary for a month prior to kegging.

In my dubbel, it also took a long time to create the nice balanced belgian taste. The beer was a little bit lifeless after 3 weeks in the bottle. After 6 weeks at ~65F however, it started to really come alive and display an extremely nice belgian character. This one was also stored in secondary for 2 months. So, it really took about 3.5 months of conditioning for it to taste like I wanted it to.

Everyone that tried both beers really loved them.

 

[Foosier]

Got a big triple fermenting right now. I can tell you that a blow off tube is a necessity. This yeast gets aggressive at the start. Started fermenting at 65 for 48 hours before moving it to 72 to finish out. I have seen a lot of comments that if this yeast gets cold it will stop fermenting all together and will not be roused. I am erring towards caution on temp as a result.

 

[TheBrewedPalate]

I recently brewed a tripel with 3787 and had great results. I also like a nice balance of esters, phenolic / spicy notes, and sweet bready malt character. I fermented it between 68 and 70 for the first 6 days and then progressively raised temp to where it could reach a max of 73. In end the beer went from 1.088 to 1.018 (after 4 days in secondary) i.e. not as dry as most homebrewers would take their Belgian beers. Despite the higher than usual FG the beer came out tasting great and I'll definitely be brewing this tripel recipe again. Hope this helps...Cheers!

 

[40watt]

3787 is my go to because it can present fairly clean or you can bring out the peppery spice. Normally very little fruit esters, but I've noticed that in something like a Quad, some esters can play present and play well with the dark fruit flavors of the dark sugars and specialty grains.

In my experience, it starts quickly and violently. It also finishes very quickly unless you are doing something over 1.070.

I've even used it in Saisons that finish bone dry.

 

[solbes]

I've made a Patersbier, a Dubbel, and 2 Tripels with WY3787. Usually start at 64, hold there for 48 hours and then ramp up to 70 or so over the next 4 or 5 days. It always ferments pretty dry for me, although I've had it restart in the bottle before so make sure its DONE.

The patersbier was really good, and the phenols were subdued. With the higher gravity brews, the phenols came into play at about month #3, and started to subside from 9 months onward. At 18-24 months everything pretty much blended together with much more subdued flavors.

I've blown 2 bucket lids with it. Even Fermcap-S does not slow this yeast down much. If you dump a lot of wort sugars onto a lot of yeast, look out.

Conversely I've used the WY1388 Duvel strain to make a Belgian Golden Strong and a Dark Strong. The phenolics were more subdued, although the pear notes were pretty evident in the first 9 months or so. More of a fruity strain I'd say, but still is semi similar.

 

[beeber]

3787 is great, it will chew up high gravity belgian beers. If you wait long enough the flavors will come through nicely. One thing I've learned is to greatly underprime (less than half of usual) when bottling or the beer will come out too fizzy.

 

[Bamsdealer]

I just did a belgian pale, dubbel and tripel. It performed well in all batches. Tripel got to 1.008 . All fermented tween 65 to 70 and finished in a reasonable time.

I only samped the blonde and dubbel but they seemed nice. Ill let you know more when I chill a bunch to drink.

 

[beergolf]

One thing I've learned is to greatly underprime (less than half of usual) when bottling or the beer will come out too fizzy.

That is because this yeast can fool you into thinking it is done. It takes off fast and then seems to be done, but it will get a few more points after a long time. I had the overcarb problem the first couple of times I used it. Now I give it plenty of time with increasing the temp at the end and it is fine.

Great flavor. Ages well. Just give it the time it needs to finish.

 

[philosofool]

Thanks for the sage advice everyone. I will probably be brewing this at the end of May and bottling in June. (I have some IPA to brew before that!)

Here's the recipe; I will let you know how it turns out, if I remember:


9 lbs. Pils malt
.5lb Caramunich
1 lb. D-90 Candi syrup (end of boil)


Mashed at 151 F for 60 minutes


.5 oz Warrior (15.5% AA)**, 60 min
.25 oz each Czech Saaz, 30 min
.25 oz Styrian Goldings, 30 min
.15 oz. Czech Saaz, 5 min
.15 oz. Styrian Goldings, 5 min


FernCapS, 10 drops, end of boil

**(Note: I brew at 7,100 feet and hop utilization with a 199 degree "boil" is a lot lower--that's not nearly as much warrior as you think!)

Wyeast 3787, from a 1.6L starter with stir plate.


O.G. 1.062
IBU 28
ABV 6.6%

 

[pdxal]

Have used 3787 a fair number of times and found that it ferments furiously to begin with, needs lots of space or a blow off tube, then slows and chugs along slowly for a long time. It needs to be warmed at the end to finish or it finishes in the bottle with gushers from overcarbonation. I usually warm it to 75ish after 3 or so weeks. Fermented cooler it is very clean/restrained and fermented warmer it is very fruity.

 

[TriggerFingers]

I used it last year for a Westvleteren XII Clone---It attenuated 7 points past my target FG of 1.022 (finished 1.015), but was one of the most amazing beers I have ever made---it got so much better after months of aging. My only regret is I didn't make more, but the last one I had was around month 11 (still really good!)

Good luck!

 

[Foosier]

Just checked my triple. After 8 days in primary, my triple is down to 1.005 from a starting gravity of 1.090. I used a Huge starter (1.5l stepped up once since the yeast was a bit old).

Gravity sample tastes a bit yeasty given things have not flocculated yet, but there is a clear citrusy/peachy note in the aroma. Obviously some warming alcohol given the high OG. This is going to be a winner! Can't wait to get it bottled!

 

[solbes]

Sounds great! Don't bottle it too soon, as you want to let it finish completely in primary. If its got a couple of points to go, it will restart in the bottle and you will get some pretty over carbed beer.

 

[Foosier]

I'd be really surprised if this goes much lower than 1.005. Seems like the yeast has gotten everything. Granted, I know better than to risk gushers. Will probably let it go another week just to be sure.

 

[solbes]

My 2nd tripel went to 1.007 (sampled after racking 1 month from brew date) . I noticed activity in the glass secondary that started up about 3 weeks after racking to secondary. It's a wonderful and yet peculiar yeast.

 

[pdxal]

My 2nd tripel went to 1.007 (sampled after racking 1 month from brew date) . I noticed activity in the glass secondary that started up about 3 weeks after racking to secondary. It's a wonderful and yet peculiar yeast.

Peculiar seems to work for Westmalle.
If you warm it up at the end of fermentation it finishes just like any other yeast.
Did it warm up in secondary by chance?

 

[solbes]

Nope, Just checked my files. Went into secondary in December in my basement, so if anything the temps probably dropped.

 

[Foosier]

I need to check my triple to see where it stands today. I have had it upstairs and it has been hot the last two days. Around 80. Curious, but will be scared, if it drops more. This is already a strong batch. Doesn't need to be stronger.

 

[solbes]

As with most Belgians over 7-8%, age will be its best friend.

 

[Gus_13]

I've used this yeast (WLP530) twice now. It was a very aggressive fermenter. I used in a BDSA and it took quite some time for the phenols to mellow out and become a fantastic beer. At first it was far too spicy for my tastes. I think if I use it again I'll go for a larger brew (this was 8.5 both times) and maybe age it for a while longer. Right now the first one I did is about a year and a half old and drinking fantastic.

 

[Gus_13]

As with most Belgians over 7-8%, age will be its best friend.

agreed

 

[drunkenmonk]

Great thread!! I mostly use WLP500 (and mostly make tripels) which ferments quickly, but flocculation is poor and supposedly doesn't have as complex flavors as WLP530 and WLP540. I've used WLP530 on a couple batches of dubbels and they were both gushers in the bottle. I was struggling to figure it out, but think I now have the answer. I'm going to ramp up the temperature near the end of fermentation and be more careful to watch that the FG has really leveled out.

 

[pdxal]

Great thread!! I mostly use WLP500 (and mostly make tripels) which ferments quickly, but flocculation is poor and supposedly doesn't have as complex flavors as WLP530 and WLP540. I've used WLP530 on a couple batches of dubbels and they were both = gushers in the bottle. I was struggling to figure it out, but think I know have the answer. I'm going to ramp up the temperature near the end of fermentation and be more careful to watch that the FG has really leveled out.

You have it right there. You have to wait forever to truly reach FG, or warm up the fermentation at the end to ensure that the yeast has truly finished fermenting. If you don't, fermentation finishes in the bottle and those last few points along with priming sugar equal over carbonation.

 

[rmyurick]

I attempted a Westvleteren 8 clone with it--extract recipe. I started high (1.079-1.080)--should have added more water during the boil. It went like gangbusters, temp got up to 80+. I decided to rack after 2 weeks--that killed the fermentation. It still had a big krausen, but the bubbling had slowed. Don't know whether it was a temperature issue (it was winter months, and I keep the house pretty cool) or high unfermentables in the extract. Added some alpha-amylase on the advice of LHB store--ended up getting down to 1.007 or so. Almost too dry. Bottled, and now it's way overcarbed (a pitcher won't hold one bottle). Tastes interesting, though--after about a year it developed some mild sour notes--not lactic, more like a peachy tartness.

So, lessons learned--1) don't rack to a secondary until it's "well-done", if at all, 2) use during the warmer months, 3) make doubly sure it's done fermenting before bottling.

 

[drunkenmonk]

I always found racking really slows down fermentation.

My first "big ticket" equipment purchase a few years back was a conical fermenter. It's awesome and totally worth the money. No more racking to secondary (you just drain gunk off the bottom), easy to keg and bottle (by pressurizing), easy to pull a sample for gravity reading or taste testing, easy to add hops or wood chips, able to yeast harvest if you want, and super easy to clean.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[ultravista]

Check the Westy 12 thread here. WLP530 in my experience has been a beast. I have fermented two Westy 12 brews, 2 Rasion D'Etre brews, and a funky porter w/raisins. I find it in no way slow.

 

[BrewSavage]

As usual I should have consulted this forum before brewing instead of after.

Pretty much all the observations made about this yeast have held true for me.

I brewed a very tasty blonde in June using this yeast. However, I should have let it go longer before bottling. I only gave it 16 days in the primary and went straight to bottling, using 5 oz of priming sugar.

Great taste but far too fizzy, and the dimples on my caps have been pushed back. No bottles have exploded yet, but i'm handling them with extreme caution.

I will brew with this yeast again but I will:
- Give it plenty of time and pay closer attention to its gravity.
- cut back on the priming sugar.

 

[Calichusetts]

I gave mine two months and it flocced like a rock but I am slightly concerned now too. Can't remember what it finished at but it was high...over 1.010. I did carmelize some of the wort so that usually means my FG is 2-3 points higher. They have only been carbing for a few weeks...might crack one to see where I am at.

This was a huge Belgian strong pale ale that came out to 11%