Well, it finally happened

[redrocker652002]

After 4 years of brewing I finally made an completely undrinkable batch of beer. It was a blonde ale, simple grain bill and even simpler hops. 10 pounds of 2 row and 4 ounces of honey malt. 1/2 ounce of CTZ and 1 ounce of cascade at 10 and 0. The fermentation went well and seemed to have no hickups. It was left in the fermenter maybe a week longer than I wanted, but I have done that countless times with no problems. Bry97 yeast, again, that I have used countless times with no problems. Bottled in 12 ounce bottles using a carb drop in each. Standard bottling procedure for me. Sat in a closet for about a week or so and I put 6 in the fridge two days ago. I opened one yesterday and it had no carbonation at all. Poured very syrupy and little bits of stuff were floating around. OK, so maybe one got bad, so I tried another. Yup, same thing. Seems either there was no yeast left in the beer when I bottled and the sugar drops just melted and did not get eaten up to carb the beer. Been brewing since 2021 and this is the first batch that I can really say just did not work.

Of course, in my quest for knowledge I am curious if anybody has had this happen to them and what, if anything, can I do to make sure this does not happen again? My mash temp was as it always is, between 152 and 154. This one I kept a pretty good eye on so it never even make it to 156. Temp was a controlled 63 to 65 if I remember correctly. I usually try and hit the middle ground for the yeast.

 

[whoaru99]

I'd think a lump of sugar like the drops would take longer to carb, since the drop has to fully dissolve and disperse and be processed by the yeasties. One week seems to me not long enough to declare failure.

 

[redrocker652002]

I am going to let them sit for at least another week. My usual process is in the closet for a week and then take one out and try it. This is the first time I have had any pour weird like this. But you are right, it won't hurt anything to let them sit for a bit longer. Thanks

 

[kev211]

Gonna second the one week not being enough. Never used carb drops and its been about 9 years since i last bottled, but I seem to remember it taking about 2 weeks minimum to get to a drinkable level of carbonation.

 

[mac_1103]

I've never used carb drops either, but it seems kind of strange that one drop would make 12 ounces of beer syrupy. Especially if the floating bits mean that the drop didn't even fully dissolve. Five ounces of corn sugar in 8 ounces of water isn't particularly syrupy.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Yep, agree. Be patient redrocker, give it another week or so and see what happens.

 

[redrocker652002]

I've never used carb drops either, but it seems kind of strange that one drop would make 12 ounces of beer syrupy. Especially if the floating bits mean that the drop didn't even fully dissolve. Five ounces of corn sugar in 8 ounces of water isn't particularly syrupy.

This is the first time it poured the way it did. It wasn't syrup like maple syrup, but definitely thicker than beer. I was thinking the bits were the sediment from the bottom but I poured the second one super slow.

 

[Yesfan]

Where is your closet located?

My cousin had a similar issue when we were still bottling. Three weeks bottle conditioning, and still flat beer. He had his bottles downstairs in his basement, which was unfinished at the time. The concrete floor kept the bottles cool enough where they wouldn't condition. Once he moved them upstairs and off a cold floor, the beer was ready to drink the following week.

I agree with the others about one week not being enough.

 

[sibelman]

Thicker than beer? That's odd. Slow to carb is not so odd, though IME that's more common with heftier beers.

I'm assuming about 5 gallons.

One week seems short. And something ain't right here. But why not wait, even a month, before dumping?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

what, if anything, can I do to make sure this does not happen again?

Some thoughts

1) If you are going to continue to bottle condition with carb drops, understanding how fast the drop dissolve may be helpful. One 'experiment' would be to put a carb drop into

1) 12 oz water, and​

2) 12 oz wort​

and observe how long it takes for the drop to dissolve. Measure high/low room temperature of the glass / bottle as that may be a factor.

2) Bottle conditioning is a combination of 1) yeast (prefer lots of healthy yeast), 2) sugar, 3) temperature, and 4) time. And there are "trade-offs".

• simple sugar + CBC-1/EC-1118 + 75F => carbonation in a week (+ conditioning time)
• @Yesfan 's observation on cement floors matches my experiences
• Measuring daily high/low room temperature can often show unexpected temperature changes
• IMO, if one does not pitch fresh yeast, wait two weeks before first sample

eta: bottle capping (process, not the the cap itself) quality is also likely a consideration. In most cases, this may show up as an inconsistency in carbonation of bottles within a batch. Occasionally, I see some inconsistent carbonation between bottles in a batch - not sure if it's the bottle, the cap, the capping process, or something else.

 

[VikeMan]

I'm surprised nobody has asked. Did the beer reach your expected final gravity, i.e. did fermentation finish (measured)?

 

[flipster]

I'm not familiar with these drops, usually I make a sugar syrup (1g sugar on 2ml water) and put it with a syringe into the bottles before filling them.

This makes the carbonation process faster, within the cold liquid it takes a lot of time to dissolve the crystals otherwise in the first place. Also the sediment covers the sugar on the bottom of the bottles and slows it down, too.
This would be the parallels I see here.

My approach would be to "shake" it up a bit: turn the bottles around and losen the sediments (including the sugar) carefully. Maybe try a warmer place for the next week like 20°C/68°F, just to put the yeast in a good mood. So, maybe not directly in a box on the floor, but with a styrofoam board underneath. If the caps are tight, there's no harm, "shaking" it.

If the fermentation went well, I don't think this is because of the amount of yeast. There is always enough for the carbonation left (except perhaps after several weeks between fermentation and bottling).

PS: during one of my very first batches I must have skipped to pour the syrup into some bottles, because there have been some with flat beer. I tried to carbonate them with a Soda Stream - the theory of carbonisation with CO2 in my mind.
Don't do that. Took a while to clean the kitchen.

 

[sibelman]

carbonate them with a Soda Stream

I had a similar incident long ago. I concur: do not do this.

 

[kev211]

I had a similar incident long ago. I concur: do not do this.

Now Im curious...

 

[sibelman]

Now Im curious...

As a seriously clueless newbie in 1981 with a beer that didn't carb for embarrassing reasons,* I bought a seltzer bottle with CO2 cartridges. Result: foam beyond belief.

*Against advice, I used essentially all dark malt. Not much fermentables there. Details maybe in my log notebook, but maybe not. Smelled great, but no body. And no carbing. Not really sure what exactly went wrong.

 

[redrocker652002]

Thank you to all who replied. My bottling process, which has been the same since I started in 2021 is a follows: Put the fermenter bucket on the sink, sanitize the bottling wand, tubing and spigot from the bucket. Wash and sanitize bottles and drop bottle caps in a bowl of sanitizer. Drop one carb drop into each bottle, these are the same drops I have been using all along, fill and cap about 12 at a time until the bucket is just about empty. The boxes with 24 bottles each, so into a closet that usually sits at about 65 to 75 degrees depending on the ambient temps of the house. After one week, I will take 2 or 3 bottles and fridge them to cool them down and try them. In each case, other than this last time, the bottles have been carbed, in one or two cases the bottles would start to foam out of the bottle about 5 to 10 seconds after I open them. This, I am going to assume, is some sort of exception for now. I have a batch ready for the keg, that will go either later today or tomorrow. I have one more batch that needs to be brewed that I am going to try using a repitch of the Bry97 that has been stored in the fridge. Will make a starter for that one, but have a sachet of Bry at the ready. Thanks to all who replied and keep it coming, this is how I learn.

 

[redrocker652002]

I'm surprised nobody has asked. Did the beer reach your expected final gravity, i.e. did fermentation finish (measured)?

Yes it did. If I remember correctly, it might have been slightly lower, maybe 2 to 3 point, but close enough where fermentation did it's job.

 

[redrocker652002]

Some thoughts

1) If you are going to continue to bottle condition with carb drops, understanding how fast the drop dissolve may be helpful. One 'experiment' would be to put a carb drop into

1) 12 oz water, and​

2) 12 oz wort​

and observe how long it takes for the drop to dissolve. Measure high/low room temperature of the glass / bottle as that may be a factor.

2) Bottle conditioning is a combination of 1) yeast (prefer lots of healthy yeast), 2) sugar, 3) temperature, and 4) time. And there are "trade-offs".

• simple sugar + CBC-1/EC-1118 + 75F => carbonation in a week (+ conditioning time)
• @Yesfan 's observation on cement floors matches my experiences
• Measuring daily high/low room temperature can often show unexpected temperature changes
• IMO, if one does not pitch fresh yeast, wait two weeks before first sample

eta: bottle capping (process, not the the cap itself) quality is also likely a consideration. In most cases, this may show up as an inconsistency in carbonation of bottles within a batch. Occasionally, I see some inconsistent carbonation between bottles in a batch - not sure if it's the bottle, the cap, the capping process, or something else.

Thank you for all the info. As I said in a post I just added, my bottling procedure has been similar in every bottled batch. This is the first one that went a bit awry. I am going to leave it and give it a try next weekend, but to be honest, I hold very little hope this is going to change the outcome. For some reason, this batch just decided to humble me a bit and make me realize I still have lots to learn. I have to go back over my notes, but I am sure something went wrong in the process pre bottle. But who knows. Good reason for me to rally with the accountant (wife) for a multi tap system so this won't happen again. LOL

 

[redrocker652002]

Thicker than beer? That's odd. Slow to carb is not so odd, though IME that's more common with heftier beers.

I'm assuming about 5 gallons.

One week seems short. And something ain't right here. But why not wait, even a month, before dumping?

Yes, it was a very weird deal. When I poured the first one, my thought was, this sure seems thicker than what is normal. I cannot describe it, what I might do is take a video of it pouring so you all can see what I mean. the honey malt I used was older, but was in a vacuum sealed bag, so I cannot see that being the issue, but who knows.

 

[sibelman]

I've heard that a listeria infection can do this thickening, but don't quote me on it.

 

[IslandLizard]

Could be Pediococcus, causing thickness/ropiness. But I doubt it could manifest itself so badly in only a week.
Are you tasting any diacetyl (popcorn buttery-like)?

 

[sibelman]

Pediococcus

Maybe that's what I heard. Dang.

 

[redrocker652002]

Could be Pediococcus, causing thickness/ropiness. But I doubt it could manifest itself so badly in only a week.
Are you tasting any diacetyl (popcorn buttery-like)?

Not really in the first taste, but it didn't really taste like much of anything. I might open one again later on today and give it a try. I am going to video the pour so you all can see what I am talking about. Thanks to all for the input. Keep it coming.

 

[whoaru99]

Is there much more to be said than already has been? E.g. give it another week or two at least.

 

[redrocker652002]

Ok. So here is a quick video of another pour that has been in the closet 2 weeks

Damn. I shortened it to less than 30 seconds and it isn't loading. Why?

 

[whoaru99]

I guess maybe the bigger point is with yeast and sugar it's either going to eventually carb or not.

Is there some overriding factor why you can't just let it go longer and see? What's worst case? You dump a month from now vs. today so to speak (or you open a month from now and it's good/better).

 

[redrocker652002]

No reason other than this is a simple 2 grain 2 hop blonde that is pouring like cough syrup. Lol. I've done batches of ipa that were dry hopped oak chipped and 5 different grains that carbed in a week. This is my first batch that has behaved this way and I just want to understand why. That's all. I'll leave it be and see.

 

[IslandLizard]

Ok. So here is a quick video of another pour that has been in the closet 2 weeks

Damn. I shortened it to less than 30 seconds and it isn't loading. Why?

We'd love to see it.
I've sent you a pm...

 

[redrocker652002]

We'd love to see it.
I've sent you a pm...

Got it. I will work on it. I know it is a MP4 and the run time is about 28 seconds. I am going to send it to myself and save it on the computer and see what happens

 

[redrocker652002]

Here is a really short clip. It's all I could put in here.