Well... I think I have an infection in my equipment...

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Tomcat0304

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Well... I think I have an infection in my equipment somewhere. Best case I can figure is that it is in my bottling bucket, worst case, it's in my autosiphon. I siphon from my kettle to my Ale Pail and would be spreading the bug through all my equipment...

I have 2 batches of beer that have become over carbonated and are gushing on every bottle. The older batch, the Black Pearl Porter brewed on Sept 22, I had trouble getting the FG down to where I expected it be. I had an OG at 1.073 and only got it down to 1.030. I took it out of my ferm chamber and brought it inside for 10 days (brought the temp up to ~76*) and gently roused the yeast. No luck, so I sent it back to the chamber to cold crash to drop the yeast for a few days. Bottled 2.5 gallons with 54g (1.9oz) sucrose for 2.4 volumes CO2 on October 28. The other half of the batch I racked onto a cranberry puree that I made. Brought the puree up to 160* for 30 minutes to sanitize. Let that part sit for about 2 weeks until the FG settled at 1.020. Bottled 2.25 gallons with 49g (1.72 oz) sucrose for 2.4 volumes CO2 on November 11. Around mid December both brews began to gush when I opened them. None have exploded yet, but I have been releasing some CO2 slowly as they are put into the refrigerator.

The newer batch, a Strong Scotch brewed on November 11, has begun showing signs of over carbonation as well. This fermentation went a lot smoother, I didn't have any problems with it. OG was 1.087 and FG was 1.026, and steady across a week. I bottled 4.75 gallons on December 10 with 108g (3.83 oz) sucrose for 2.3 volumes CO2. Cracked one open over the weekend, and it slowly began to foam out of the bottle.

My sanitation for the two years I have been brewing had been thorough, I thought. I would always make a new batch of StarSan before bottling or on brew day and keep the equipment in the solution for at least 20 minutes. I had a sponge that I use specifically and only for brewing equipment that is soaked in the StarSan to wipe down equipment (autosiphon, tubing, bottling wand, bottling spigot, sample thief, inside of bucket, etc) that was not below the sanitizer level.

For bottles, I have a Vinator that I use to sanitize the insides, and put the caps in the reservoir of the Vinator, and let them drain in the rack of the dishwasher that had just gone through a full cycle with heated drying. I also always wash out the bottle after pouring a beer.

My cleaning regimen does not always involve PBW, unless I have a stubborn bit of gunk or used a carboy (then I use a carboy cleaner anyway). Usually I wipe down with the sponge to get all of the fermentation residue off, then sanitize before the next use.

So, couple of questions. Is there any way to sanitize the equipment I currently have to kill this bug? Bleach, stronger food safe sanitizer? How about for the bottles? I have heard of foil over the mouth of them, in an oven. Would that work? Do you need to use PBW after every use, or is it clean when there are no observable debris on the equipment? Any other suggestions or thoughts?
 
You can't sanitize equipment that is not clean, no matter how fresh your starsan is.

My recommendation would be to run hot PBW through everything, then starsan. If you want to use bleach, that's fine, just be sure to very thoroughly rinse everything afterwards.

Finding the source of a reoccurring infection is difficult. Many people end up replacing much of their plastic gear. Although your comment that you are not completely cleaning your equipment with PBW or oxyclean before sanitizing may be your issue.
 
Pretty reasonable that a PBW soak, thorough brushing, bleaching, and StarSan soak will kill anything that could be causing the bottle infections?
 
That's the idea anyway. There could be a point in your process that needs starsan and isn't getting it. It's best to get everything clean then become a sani-nazi with that starsan. Good luck.
 
Thanks for the tips! Still hoping it's isolated to somewhere after the primaries, I don't want to lose the BDSA I brewed in December!
 
I would recommend moving away from the sponge all together. Even if you only used it in starsan, sponges are notorious harbors for unwanted bugs.


Try using a spray bottle with starsan in it in place of the sponge wipe down for doing quick equipment sanitation.
 
Yeah, I had already done that after this last bottling round. I have had a spray bottle for when I didn't have a batch of StarSan made up, but never thought to use it in place of the sponge until the first of this year.
 
Could definitely be infection - but those are some pretty high Final Gravities. You only said your bottles were gushing - you never said how they taste. Does your beer taste infected? Does it taste bad/horrible. Gushing is a sign of infection - but, it is also a sign of bottling beers where the gravity was too high. Could be that the rousing of yeast during bottling, addition of sugar and left over gravity points is overcarbonating your beer.

What do you use for yeast and how long do you ferment in primary? Seems like you are doing all BIG beers. If you are using dry yeast like US05 you are probably good. But, if you are using liquid yeast, are you making a big/good starter? If not, a smack pack or vial of yeast would not take care of beers like the ones you are doing. How long do you leave alone in primary - for beers that big, you need a big yeast starter, well oxygenated wort and I would be leaving them alone for 2 weeks minimum and probably 3 before I did anything with them at all.

Cleaning -definitely clean everything really well - PBW and StarSan are the way to go. Consider buying new tubing. Spigots and bottling wands and auto siphons are notorious for harboring bad stuff. Make sure you are taking them COMPLETELY apart - they come apart, and many people don't realize that. Especially the spigot on the bucket - the valve will pull out.

Consider replacing the spigot if needed.

I would recommend trying a "normal" beer for your next batch - just some 1.040 pale ale, brown ale, etc....... It will be cheaper in case there is something wrong. It will be done sooner. It will maybe rule out the possibility of fermentation/FG issues as it should have no trouble fermenting out.
 
If it still tastes alright I would guess that your fermentation is picking up again in the bottles. I have restarted fermentation with table sugar. Usually for IIPAs I will let fermentation go most of the way and then add some table sugar to get the alcohol up, the final gravity will be lower than the gravity before I added the sugar.
I thing it lets the yeast rebuild some enzymes needed to break apart those more complex sugars.
I also had a beer that gushed like your seem to, still tastes ok 3 years in the bottle, I just place a glass over them when I open them to keep the ceiling clean...

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Home Brew mobile app
 
Could definitely be infection - but those are some pretty high Final Gravities. You only said your bottles were gushing - you never said how they taste. Does your beer taste infected? Does it taste bad/horrible. Gushing is a sign of infection - but, it is also a sign of bottling beers where the gravity was too high. Could be that the rousing of yeast during bottling, addition of sugar and left over gravity points is overcarbonating your beer.

What do you use for yeast and how long do you ferment in primary? Seems like you are doing all BIG beers. If you are using dry yeast like US05 you are probably good. But, if you are using liquid yeast, are you making a big/good starter? If not, a smack pack or vial of yeast would not take care of beers like the ones you are doing. How long do you leave alone in primary - for beers that big, you need a big yeast starter, well oxygenated wort and I would be leaving them alone for 2 weeks minimum and probably 3 before I did anything with them at all.

Cleaning -definitely clean everything really well - PBW and StarSan are the way to go. Consider buying new tubing. Spigots and bottling wands and auto siphons are notorious for harboring bad stuff. Make sure you are taking them COMPLETELY apart - they come apart, and many people don't realize that. Especially the spigot on the bucket - the valve will pull out.

Consider replacing the spigot if needed.

I would recommend trying a "normal" beer for your next batch - just some 1.040 pale ale, brown ale, etc....... It will be cheaper in case there is something wrong. It will be done sooner. It will maybe rule out the possibility of fermentation/FG issues as it should have no trouble fermenting out.

Hey Braufessor, thanks for your input. Sorry for the delay in reply, but I took some more notes on the brews how they are now.

For the Black Pearl Porter, I was thinking that I may have bottled soon since I was having trouble with the fermentation anyway. I took a gravity reading (made sure that the beer was flat and at 60*) and came up with 1.017, only 2 points below what BeerSmith predicted at 1.019. I guess I was wrong in thinking that lactose and maltodextrine would raise the FG of the beer. For the characteristics of the beer (keep in mind, I don't know how to fully describe a beer in BJCP terms); the aroma I get sweet, grainy, chocolate, and slight alcohol. For taste, I get a mild sweetness, milk chocolate, roasty. Slight smoke on the aftertaste. Some fruitness, thin body, warming alcohol, and slightly yeasty from the yeast being roused when the CO2 escaped. I did not taste any hint of sour or tart, except for in the beer right after pouring to a glass. I'm guessing that would have been from the carbonic acid from over carbonating? There was a time or two when it burned my nose when I first took a drink.

For the Strong Scotch (Great Scot! recipe from BYO May-June 2013, P. 55), I thought I was pretty in line with the recipe, until I looked back at it today. FG should have been 1.021, Beersmith predicted 1.026, today I measured 1.023. When I bottled it was 1.025, so that is probably part of the issue also. Aroma is alcohol and sweetness. I can't pick anything else out of the sample from the testing tube. Flavor is malty, nutty, bready, toffee and caramel with some residual sweetness. Medium bodied, with warming alcohol, and again slightly yeasty. Actually a very delicious beer!

On both of these beers, I used Wyeast. I made up a starter or stepped up a starter on a stirplate with appropriate volumes from MrMalty and yeastcalc.

I'll leave beer is primary until they are close to the expected FG and doesn't change over the course of a week, usually 3 weeks, then cold crash in my ferm chamber for a few days at 37*. I also use the oxygen welding tanks with the oxygenation wand and stone from WilliamsBrewing to oxygenate the wort for about 60 seconds.

I'll go ahead and disassemble everything, PBW soak, scrub with brushes, bleach, StarSan, and replace all tubing. I've been interested in trying the plastic T siphon anyway! I'll also sterilize the bottles in the oven with foil over the tops also.

I was brewing big beers for the winter, I have a 1.050 Alt in primary right now in anticipation for spring. I've already overshot the expected gravity by 0.005, but I'll leave it to lager a little bit longer to be sure it's done. It sounded like a good recipe, although I'm not exactly sure what to expect since I haven't had one before, but I know it shouldn't have any sour to it!

Thanks again!
 
One more thing to check is if your empties are getting visibly clean before your next bottling session. I had two beers get bottle infected because I hadn't got some of the bottles completely clean from a previous beer.
 
Id say to just get a new auto-siphon. I've had to replace mine when I started getting infected yeast washing and took a good hard look at all the cracks in my auto and just decided that it Wasn't worth it. I still use the thing for moving secondary into my kegs (after its siphoned out a whole carboy filled with cleaning water and is washed out) , and use a stainless steel racking cane to extract beer from primary so my washed yeast will be safe.

for the price of replacing the auto (which are cheap), its just a better decision than loosing an entire batch of beer to infection (or in my case, loosing yeast washing's).

Id also suggest using a bit less than recommended for priming sugar, just to be safe. The beer will get carbonated up over time anyway, and its best to play it safe. But then again, difficulty with priming bottles DID eventually push me into kegging :p

best of luck!
 

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