Weiss Bier turns sour / tart

[rkehlet]

Hi All
I've been brewing two Weissbiers the last 5 months. Both has turned out sour - too sour for the style. Anyone got a clue to what is wrong?
Recipe 18 l batch
Wheat pale 3.4 kg
Pilsner 0.84 kg
Crystal 0.2 kg
Cara hell 1.2 kg
Mash: 50 dg rest 20 min. Rise 63 dg 1 hour.
Pre boil 23 l
Worth boil 1 hour
Mittelfruh 20 gr. 30 min
Mittelfruh 23 gr. 10 min
Yeast WLP351 Bavarin Weiss
Primary 3 weeks, bottle fermented fresh yeast added

 

[rkehlet]

Forgot the fermentation Temp. 21 dg.

 

[LLBeanJ]

My experience with this strain is that tartness is one of its characteristics.

 

[rkehlet]

What would you recommend then. I like sour / tart beer but would really like to create a standard hefe weisen like Franzinkanser or Paulaner?

 

[LLBeanJ]

WY3068 or WLP300 are the traditional strains.

I'll be honest with you... I've been brewing for over four years and have yet to brew a decent Hefeweizen. Based on my own experience, and contrary to popular belief, they are one of the most difficult styles to brew well. I brewed one yesterday and drastically underpitched 3068 with no aeration, hoping for some nice banana esters. I'm also open fermenting (to minimize sulfur buildup) in the low to mid 70s and will be skimming the krausen daily.

You may find this link helpful...

http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Weissbier_Hell

 

[rkehlet]

Many thanks, very useful some details I haven't read before. The process of removing / skimming the Krausen can it prevent the harsh / tart taste?

 

[LLBeanJ]

Skimming the krausen will help to minimize that nasty, bitter taste that the brown krausen tastes like by keeping it out of your beer. If you've ever tasted just a little bit of that stuff, you'll know to what I'm referring. If you want to have less tartness, replace some of the Pilsner with a bit of Vienna or Munich malt, add some CaraMunich or other crystal malt, and mash on the higher side. I see you have quite a bit of crystal in your recipe, enough that I would not expect to get too much sour out that brew, as the crystal should've sweetened it up a fair amount. Of course, using another strain, such as 3068 would likely reduce the tartness, as well, but that strain can also be tart, just not as much as WLP351.

 

[rkehlet]

Can I ask you what strain you would recommend for producing less tart beers - would it be Belgian wit?

 

[LLBeanJ]

No, Belgian witbiers are supposed to have some tartness, so I wouldn't use any of the witbier strains.

Stick with WY3068 or WLP300. Both of these can produce some tartness, but they don't have to. I've found they produce some unpleasant tartness (for the style) if mashed low (150-ish) and have a simple 50%+ wheat malt/balance Pilsner grain bill. You can reduce or eliminate the tartness by mashing warmer (153-155°F) and sweetening up the grain bill. Go with something like 50% wheat/25% Vienna or light Munich/15-20% Pils/5% CaraMunich. You will likely need to add acid to lower the mash pH (either acid drops or 2-3% acid malt - reduce the Pils accordingly if using acid malt), but acid will contribute to tartness, so the less, the better, in that regard. Also, pitch around 55°F and allow to rise to around 60-62°F and hold there. Go above 64° and you risk a thinner bodied beer, which I think would accentuate tartness.

 

[rkehlet]

Hi again. Thx for the extensive reply. I have collected a lot of info and coupled with the feedback from this thread I will attempt again to brew a Weiss next week. I think the most important learnings here is as follows: skimming the Krausen but as well whirlpool at the end of the boil to reduce trub. Do a dedoktion or add acid malt. Use 3068 or similar strain that promotes less tartness.
Another point. I kept all my bottles of tart Weiss in the cooler at 6 dg. C. Now after 4 months from brewing, the tartness is significantly reduced even to the point that the beer is drinkable. Is this a we'll known phenomenon, that tartness decline over time when cold conditioning?