weed killa

[arturo7]

I am converting my front yard from lawn to xeriscape, replacing the grass with low water, native ground cover. Most of the grass was killed off last summer but, with all the recent rain, it came back along with a buttload of weeds.

It needs to be cleared again and I don't want to use any chemicals. Any suggestions? Planting will be in February or March.

I've read that boiling water works. With the brew gear I'm sure I could boil up enough to do the job. Has anyone tried this? What about vinegar or bleach?

Thanks

 

[margarita_man]

Vinegar should work with 2 applications.

 

[PVH]

I wouldn't use bleach. I once dumped about 5 gallons of bleach solution, probably 1 T per gallon, on my brick patio (brick laid directly on ground) and I ended up with an earthworm holocaust like you've never seen. They've made a great comeback, though.

 

[SKMO]

Like Bleach is not a chemical? Think about that one for a minute. Vinegar will lower your pH but have minimal effect.

Use a glyphosate product (Roundup). It's proven safe. Better for the environment and your soil than bleach by a long shot.

You could cover the area you want to plant with black plastic sheeting for a few weeks which should knock most stuff back, temporarily. Dumping bleach water on a soil you want to plant in is a very poor idea.

 

[mattmcl]

Use a glyphosate product (Roundup). It's proven safe.

Wow. Safe for who? Aside from supporting Monsanto (who is now legally able to contaminate the nation with GMO alfalfa), Roundup is far from safe.

 

[arturo7]

Probably should not have included bleach as an alternative. Roundup is under consideration but I'd like to avoid it. Doesn't it stick around for a few months?

All of the sources I've read indicated that plastic film needs a couple months of hot weather to be effective.

I just dumped some boiling water on a test patch. We'll see what happens. Maybe a combo of boiling water and vinegar?

 

[malkore]

read up on 'solarizing' your weeds.

 

[android]

glyphosate (you don't have to buy 'roundup' to support monsanto, other companies make glyphosate products) would be your best bet (and the residual activity listed on the label is a CYA for the companies, i have planted grass seed into roundup applied areas the same day as spraying without any ill effect on establishment), but if you really don't want to use chemicals, maybe rent a torch and burn them out?

 

[android]

by the way, what kind of grass/weeds are you trying to kill?

 

[arturo7]

what kind? uh... green?

 

[Hang Glider]

if the area isn't too large- a weed torch -

 

[arturo7]

I like the weed torch. Maybe if the local tool rental joint will have one.

 

[TxBrew]

if the area isn't too large- a weed torch -

I just want one of those, no reason.

 

[lurker18]

I would go with the Roundup Transorb. Regular Roundup is a contact killer, and grass is very deep rooted, and probably will not be killed totally with that. Roundup transorb gets taken in by the plant and the chemical gets into all parts of the plant, and kills from the inside, including the roots. It also has a fairly short residual, so you can plant into the soil within a day or so.

As for roundup being safe, I saw a university professor of mine drink some of it to prove that it was only harmful to chlorophyl. I DO NOT recommend doing this, just saying.

The LD50 of glyphosphate is 4320 mg/kg, caffine 192mg/kg. And I would bet most of us wouldn't think twice about drinking coffee.

 

[Bedlam]

I just want one of those, no reason.

Got one. Love it! We rarely use it for its intended purpose, honestly. We use it to start brushfires, sure, but also as a cheater for starting the wood stove or charcoal. Very useful!

 

[arturo7]

I rented one of these weed burners today for $12. It took about an hour to burn off one square meter. It generated quite a bit of smoke and used a fair amount of propane.

This is, in no way, easier on the environment than Roundup.

If the boiling water test fails, I guess I'll be using Roundup.

 

[olsond]

There called "invasive" for a reason. They are really hard to Kill!

If you're going to add any topsoil you can just smother the grass and weeds with newspaper... maybe 3 or 4 sheets thick then bury that with soil or sand or whatever you plan to "scape" with (The paper will eventually breakdown and become soil). That'll kill off all the old growth stuff, then you just have to worry about the stuff that finds root in the next couple of years.

 

[olsond]

Oh Mow what is there down to as far to the ground as possible too!

I did this on a very large section of my yard and it worked like a charm.

 

[android]

I would go with the Roundup Transorb. Regular Roundup is a contact killer, and grass is very deep rooted, and probably will not be killed totally with that. Roundup transorb gets taken in by the plant and the chemical gets into all parts of the plant, and kills from the inside, including the roots. It also has a fairly short residual, so you can plant into the soil within a day or so.

As for roundup being safe, I saw a university professor of mine drink some of it to prove that it was only harmful to chlorophyl. I DO NOT recommend doing this, just saying.

The LD50 of glyphosphate is 4320 mg/kg, caffine 192mg/kg. And I would bet most of us wouldn't think twice about drinking coffee.

i'm not sure that roundup transorb is even available in the US. roundup pro/max are what we have in the states, essentially the same thing, but any roundup product will kill your weeds. the main different with roundup and other glyphosate herbicides is that roundup has a proprietary mix of surfactants blended with the active ingredient which helps the product absorb into the plant quicker and easier (glyphosate is actually quite good at translocating within the plant, it just needs to get in there). the mode of action of glyphosate isn't changed by the formulation, and it doesn't target chlorophyll production or interaction, it inhibits the production of a specific enzyme in a metabolic pathway that is needed to produce essential amino acids and other stuff in the plant. the reason it's not (as) harmful to things besides plants is because we don't have that same metabolic pathway, so there's nothing for it to inhibit. who is that professor you have that actually drank some?

but i agree, it's pretty low impact environmentally speaking. microorganisms in the soil can quickly detoxify glyphosate.

 

[SKMO]

Wow. Safe for who? Aside from supporting Monsanto (who is now legally able to contaminate the nation with GMO alfalfa), Roundup is far from safe.

Please supply documentation that Glyphosate (or any Roundup type products) are detrimental to the environment. I have used RUP and Glyphosate products since 1986, extensively. I would imagine more than any person reading this. I have correctly applied tens of thousands of gallons of RUP.

I am not a huge advocate of Monsanto, in fact I dislike the company for several reasons, but RUP has stood the test of time and is an effective non-selective herbicide.

Tree huggers better get their facts straight here. Over the top and RUP ready crops save me at least 18 gallons of fuel per acre per year. So this is bad, using a chemical that is photodegraded in about 10 hours ?

Whose BS are you buying into? Mine maybe ?

Go grab another PBR in a can and we'll talk about this. I have lived on this landscape my entire life, and just absolutely love getting into pissing matches with city boys who want to raise the environmental flag. You truly, do not have a friggin clue how the rural economy works, or how hard we work to protect it.

You want to talk to someone who is interested in protecting water quality, talk to a fisherman. Habitat, talk to a hunter. Soil conservation, talk to a farmer. Cool thing is these are generally all the same people.

Talking to someone interested in "protecting the environment" ? An outside group with no vested interest in any real thing, other than their own perceived notion of what they envision as their Utopia. They form "groupthink" mentalities and believe and preach what they are told, they have no ties to, or clues to reality on the rural landscape.

Git yer hamburger in a bag, I guess you think it's made in China.

 

[olsond]

Please supply documentation that Glyphosate (or any Roundup type products) are detrimental to the environment. I have used RUP and Glyphosate products since 1986, extensively. I would imagine more than any person reading this. I have correctly applied tens of thousands of gallons of RUP.

I am not a huge advocate of Monsanto, in fact I dislike the company for several reasons, but RUP has stood the test of time and is an effective non-selective herbicide.

Tree huggers better get their facts straight here. Over the top and RUP ready crops save me at least 18 gallons of fuel per acre per year. So this is bad, using a chemical that is photodegraded in about 10 hours ?

Whose BS are you buying into? Mine maybe ?

Go grab another PBR in a can and we'll talk about this. I have lived on this landscape my entire life, and just absolutely love getting into pissing matches with city boys who want to raise the environmental flag. You truly, do not have a friggin clue how the rural economy works, or how hard we work to protect it.

You want to talk to someone who is interested in protecting water quality, talk to a fisherman. Habitat, talk to a hunter. Soil conservation, talk to a farmer. Cool thing is these are generally all the same people.

Talking to someone interested in "protecting the environment" ? An outside group with no vested interest in any real thing, other than their own perceived notion of what they envision as their Utopia. They form "groupthink" mentalities and believe and preach what they are told, they have no ties to, or clues to reality on the rural landscape.

Git yer hamburger in a bag, I guess you think it's made in China.

It's not the Glyphosate alone that is bad for the environment (although we over use it and are now creating mutated weeds that are immune to it's affects) it's the stuff we mix it with (surfactants' and other's). Most of these chemicals are irritants at their best and carcinogens at their worst. Not to mention surfactants allow the glyphosate to leach into the soil killing, at the very least, fungus important to crop life.

I don't know you so I don't know your environmental views but don't be fooled into thinking that protecting our ability to grow a single plant on a 1000+ acre plot of land is the same as protecting our environment.

 

[Yambor44]

Please supply documentation that Glyphosate (or any Roundup type products) are detrimental to the environment. I have used RUP and Glyphosate products since 1986, extensively. I would imagine more than any person reading this. I have correctly applied tens of thousands of gallons of RUP.

I am not a huge advocate of Monsanto, in fact I dislike the company for several reasons, but RUP has stood the test of time and is an effective non-selective herbicide.

Tree huggers better get their facts straight here. Over the top and RUP ready crops save me at least 18 gallons of fuel per acre per year. So this is bad, using a chemical that is photodegraded in about 10 hours ?

Whose BS are you buying into? Mine maybe ?

Go grab another PBR in a can and we'll talk about this. I have lived on this landscape my entire life, and just absolutely love getting into pissing matches with city boys who want to raise the environmental flag. You truly, do not have a friggin clue how the rural economy works, or how hard we work to protect it.

You want to talk to someone who is interested in protecting water quality, talk to a fisherman. Habitat, talk to a hunter. Soil conservation, talk to a farmer. Cool thing is these are generally all the same people.

Talking to someone interested in "protecting the environment" ? An outside group with no vested interest in any real thing, other than their own perceived notion of what they envision as their Utopia. They form "groupthink" mentalities and believe and preach what they are told, they have no ties to, or clues to reality on the rural landscape.

Git yer hamburger in a bag, I guess you think it's made in China.

I agree.

 

[lurker18]

i'm not sure that roundup transorb is even available in the US. roundup pro/max are what we have in the states, essentially the same thing, but any roundup product will kill your weeds. the main different with roundup and other glyphosate herbicides is that roundup has a proprietary mix of surfactants blended with the active ingredient which helps the product absorb into the plant quicker and easier (glyphosate is actually quite good at translocating within the plant, it just needs to get in there). the mode of action of glyphosate isn't changed by the formulation, and it doesn't target chlorophyll production or interaction, it inhibits the production of a specific enzyme in a metabolic pathway that is needed to produce essential amino acids and other stuff in the plant. the reason it's not (as) harmful to things besides plants is because we don't have that same metabolic pathway, so there's nothing for it to inhibit. who is that professor you have that actually drank some?

but i agree, it's pretty low impact environmentally speaking. microorganisms in the soil can quickly detoxify glyphosate.

Agree, I have been away from the farm for a while now, and have not kept up with technology. I meant by the chlorophyll, round up targets chlorophyll dependants (plants), not that it attacks the chlorophyll. I know from the transorb formulation, it takes a little more time for complete burn off, but it is more effective because it does work it's way throughout the plant, not just burn off the places it touches, as the older roundup formulations used to do.

For the professor, as I said I would not recommend it, and he didn't drink gallons of it, but did it as a point to show that chemicals can be used safely.

 

[TxBrew]

Got one. Love it! We rarely use it for its intended purpose, honestly. We use it to start brushfires, sure, but also as a cheater for starting the wood stove or charcoal. Very useful!

Multiple uses means I can justify buying my fire wand!