Wax Dipping Bottles and Carbonation

[xxHelderxx]

Hi Everyone,

I have a batch of 22oz bombers filled with a belgian blonde concotion I made and filtered. I also wax dipped all of the tops for some extra coolness. Yesterday I went to pop one open and got a big puff of carbonation smoke out of it. When I poured it out, I noticed that there wasn't that much carbonation present in the beer. A little, but not a ton. I'm thinking when I dipped the bottle I must have released some of the CO2 from solution and trapped it in the headspace between the liquid and the cap- thus resulting in the extra pressure.

My question is: Will the CO2 be absorbed back into solution over time, or is this the new carbonation level of this beer?

Thanks so much!

 

[Revvy]

Wax seals have nothing to do with your lack of carbonation.

How long have they been in the bottles, and at what temp?

 

[xxHelderxx]

No no I'm not blaming the wax seal per se. I'm saying that in the process of wax dipping them, I inverted them to get the caps in wax, then stood them upright again. Doing so caused the displacement of some CO2 that was in solution. I'm wondering if that displaced CO2 will ever get re-absorbed into the beer if given enough time. I'm sure that storing them in a colder environment would encourage the absorbtion, but just more curious to see if that's even possible in the shorter term.

They've been in bottles for just about a week at room temperature. Assuming about 72.

 

[Revvy]

They've been in bottles for just about a week at room temperature. Assuming about 72.

I knew what your answer was gonna be, before you even posted. What you THINK is the cause, has NOTHING to do with why the beer is not carbed. In fact there's ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with your beer, EXCEPT that you are impatient.

Flipping the bottles mean absolutely nothing...Often we recommend folks invert their bottles to get the yeast off the bottom. You won't "lose co2" by doing that, ALL the co2 is trapped in the bottles, it's not going to go anywhere.

The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

Stouts and porters have taken me between 6 and 8 weeks to carb up..I have a 1.090 Belgian strong that took three months to carb up.

Temp and gravity are the two factors that contribute to the time it takes to carb beer. But if a beer's not ready yet, or seems low carbed, and you added the right amount of sugar to it, then it's not stalled, it's just not time yet.

Everything you need to know about carbing and conditioning, can be found here Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. With emphasis on the word, "patience."

If a beer isn't carbed by "x number of weeks" you just have to give them more time. If you added your sugar, then the beer will carb up eventually, it's really a foolroof process. All beers will carb up eventually. A lot of new brewers think they have to "troubleshoot" a bottling issue, when there really is none, the beer knows how to carb itself. In fact if you run beersmiths carbing calculator, some lower grav beers don't even require additional sugar to reach their minimum level of carbonation. Just time.

And bombers take longer than their 12 ounce counterparts. A larger volume sized bottle usually needs more time to carb AND condition. I have some pints, 22 oz bombers and other sizes that I often use, but since I enter contests I usually also do a sixer or two of standard 12 ouncers for entering. And inevitably the 12 ouncers are done at least a week faster than the larger bottles....some times two weeks ahead of time...

Also the rule of thumb is 3 weeks at 70 degrees for a normal grav 12 ounce bottle....to carb and condition....It takes longer for the yeasties to convert the larger volume in the bigger bottles to enough co2 in the headspace to be reabsorbed back into the solution...A ration I don't know how much...

Big Kahuna gives a good explanation here...

Simple. It's the ration of contact area just like in a keg. The c02 will need to pressurize the head space (Which takes LESS TIME) in a bigger bottle (More Yeast and sugar, roughly the same head space) but then it has to force that c02 into solution through the same contact area...thus it takes longer.

Give them more time, like ANOTHER 3 weeks at least.

 

[xxHelderxx]

Revvy-

Thanks for the detailed resposne. I totally understand what you mean here with one exception: This beer was filtered/force carb'd and bottled on a small bottling assembly at a local brewer. It's a small run. There is no yeast in the bottle, hence no possibility of further bottle conditioning. At this point all the CO2 that is going to be in the beer is already in the bottle. I'm simply wondering if CO2 will reabsorb into solution after beign displaced like I did.

 

[Germelli1]

If that is the case Helder, then C02 is better absorbed into the beer at low temperatures. Try putting a bottle in the fridge for at least 48 hours and see if that helps at all!

 

[Revvy]

Revvy-

Thanks for the detailed resposne. I totally understand what you mean here with one exception: This beer was filtered/force carb'd and bottled on a small bottling assembly at a local brewer. It's a small run. There is no yeast in the bottle, hence no possibility of further bottle conditioning. At this point all the CO2 that is going to be in the beer is already in the bottle. I'm simply wondering if CO2 will reabsorb into solution after beign displaced like I did.

See these are the kind of details that we really need to know to actually help you initially....Most folks don't come in with forced carbed bottles from a professional line that don't hold carb.

I still don't believe the waxing/flipping had anything to do with the lack of carbnation. If it's forced carbed, and they were fully carbed before going into the bottles, then somehow you have leaky caps. Or maybe they weren't carbed to your liking to begin with.

But flipping the bottles to wax them wouldn't cause the co2 to leave the solution.

 

[xxHelderxx]

Thanks Germelli1- I was more just curious about the actual physics of CO2 absorbtion I think. I shouldn't have filtered it, bottom line. If there was yeast in the bottle I could invert/dip away to my hearts content and have no ill effects on carbonation.

 

[xxHelderxx]

Revvy- Agreed I should have spelled that out more clearly in the beginning. But thanks so much for your detailed responses. As always, you're super helpful.

 

[redcoat_or_rebel]

Flipping the bottles mean absolutely nothing...Often we recommend folks invert their bottles to get the yeast off the bottom. You won't "lose co2" by doing that, ALL the co2 is trapped in the bottles, it's not going to go anywhere.

The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition.

QUOTE]

Who are "we"? there is more than one of you?

 

[Germelli1]

If nothing else works and you want to save the beer, I know it would be a pain in the ass to break the wax seal and recap, but you could get the carb tabs and some dry yeast. Sprinkle a few grains of the dry yeast in and prime with carb tabs, recap.

 

[Revvy]

If nothing else works and you want to save the beer, I know it would be a pain in the ass to break the wax seal and recap, but you could get the carb tabs and some dry yeast. Sprinkle a few grains of the dry yeast in and prime with carb tabs, recap.

I was thinking the same thing.

It'd be a PITA, but...

 

[nefarious_1_]

QUOTE]

Who are "we"? there is more than one of you?

Clearly, some people are out of the loop...





Heed Revvy's words (along with many in agreement) and ye shall be saved!

 

[xxHelderxx]

If nothing else works and you want to save the beer, I know it would be a pain in the ass to break the wax seal and recap, but you could get the carb tabs and some dry yeast. Sprinkle a few grains of the dry yeast in and prime with carb tabs, recap.

Oh boy, that's definitely a last ditch option. I'm hoping some time in the fridge will fix the issue. It's not a total lack of carbonation, just a tad bit light compared to what the desired volume was (2.5)

 

[jd3]

Thanks Germelli1- I was more just curious about the actual physics of CO2 absorbtion I think. I shouldn't have filtered it, bottom line. If there was yeast in the bottle I could invert/dip away to my hearts content and have no ill effects on carbonation.

You still can. Flipping the bottles did not lose the co2. Either they are carbed or they aren't and it has nothing to do with the flipping/wax.

 

[xxHelderxx]

You still can. Flipping the bottles did not lose the co2. Either they are carbed or they aren't and it has nothing to do with the flipping/wax.

So when you say it didn't lose CO2, what's the logic behind this? I'm not doubting you, just curious as to how this plays out. I invert a bottle then flip it back rightside-up. There is a good size layer of bubbles in the neck of the bottle now (displaced CO2 I'm assuming). So are we saying that because this has no effect on the final carbonation volume of the beer, that the displaced CO2 is reabsorbed into the solution?

 

[jd3]

I'm saying it doesn't matter. Seriously.

Take a commercial beer. Flip it. Drink it. Did it magically make it flat?

Unless you have 15 oz of headspace and your bottling line inject oxygen into the headspace, you have nothing to worry about. You're making up a problem.

The problem was either they carbonation wasn't there in the first place or the bottles leak. The bubbles do not mean displaced co2. They just mean bubbles.

 

[xxHelderxx]

Gotcha- thanks for your responses!