Water Volume for Mash/Lauter Vessel

[Iniquity]

Just a quick question.

If I am using a single vessel for both Mashing and Sparging using direct heat can I just add the total water volume at the beginning or do I still need to start with mash water volume and then add sparge water?

 

[Yooper]

You're still going to want to sparge, unless you're doing a no-sparge.

(How's that for a non-answer?!? )

There are some brewers who do a no-sparge brew, and it's outlined pretty well in How to Brew by John Palmer. (The book, not the online version). I'm not well-versed in it, but I know that some of the BIAB (brew in a bag) brewers do it and can give more input.

My experience is that sparging is important to get most of the sugars out of the grain.

 

[ajf]

IMO you need to do a mash and then a sparge.
If you mash with the full volume of water, you will have a very thin mash. This causes two problems.
1. The pH of the mash will probably be higher than you want
2. The enzymes will be so diluted, they will not have a chance to work effectively, and you may have to mash for a long time to get complete conversion.

That's just my opinion. It isn't necessarily factual.

-a.

 

[shortyjacobs]

Mash. Drain. Sparge. Mashout is optional.

Think of the sugars as soap, and the grain as dishes. You want to capture all that soap (sugar), leaving clean dishes. Which is better, dump all dishes into soapy water, then dry? Or dishes into soapy water, then into clean water, then dry?

 

[Iniquity]

Thanks for the info everyone. So it looks like I should heat my mash water toss in the grains and then add sparge water after mash is complete.

This brings me to my next question. Since I'm mashing/sparging from the same vessal using direct heat does it matter what the temperature is of the sparge water when I toss it in? Could I just add water at room temp and then bring the temp back up using direct heat? or will lowering the temp of my mash and then bringing it back up be harmful?

 

[Bobby_M]

Even adding the sparge water after the mash rest period is called a "no sparge" since the total wort is homogeneous in contact with the grain. This is fine if you accept the efficiency hit and can fit the full volume plus grain in your vessel.

The alternative is to drain the first wort runnings into a bucket temporarily and then add the sparge, stir, and run that off into your kettle.

Direct heating a mash pot is trickier than it sounds. You have to stir the crap out of it the whole time to prevent scorching.

 

[shortyjacobs]

Thanks for the info everyone. So it looks like I should heat my mash water toss in the grains and then add sparge water after mash is complete.

This brings me to my next question. Since I'm mashing/sparging from the same vessal using direct heat does it matter what the temperature is of the sparge water when I toss it in? Could I just add water at room temp and then bring the temp back up using direct heat? or will lowering the temp of my mash and then bringing it back up be harmful?

The easiest way is to use software to figure out how much heat your cold grain will suck out of the warm water, typically it's around 12 degrees, depending of course on amount of grain and temp of grain. Back when I had a direct fire mash tun, I just put cool water into it, (the correct amount), and heated the water up to the temp required by the software, (say 166 for a 154 mash temp). Then, turn off heat, add grain, stir, wait 5 minutes, measure temp. If all is good, wrap your MLT in something (I used a sleeping bag), and leave sit.

As Bobby said, trying to heat after you have added the grain is just asking for scorching.