Water profile for a RyePA

[Beer-lord]

I've done a number of rye beers and really dig them. I'm always playing around with the water and I thought I'd try Randy Mosher's profile (well, close to it) but when I do, I get a Sulfate to Chloride of 4:36 to 1. That doesn't sound good to me. I've used his pale ale profile and really think it worked fine but my gut is making me OCD on this one.
Here's the link to my recipe: Ryeght On.pdf

What say ye?

 

[troglodytes]

I have nice soft water with the exception of high Sodium ( you would prefer it to be a little lower than this, I think), so I usually use it as a starting point instead of RO. I've been using the following water profile for big amber IPAs.

Ca: 100
Mg: 5
Na: 46
SO4: 200
Cl: 75

 

[Beer-lord]

The profile I aimed at was:
Ca=110
Mg=18
Na=16,
SO4=275
Cl=50
And it's the S04 I'm concerned about.

 

[Dgallo]

The profile I aimed at was:
Ca=110
Mg=18
Na=16,
SO4=275
Cl=50
And it's the S04 I'm concerned about.

what are you concerned about with the s04? how to get there? and keep all else the same?

 

[Beer-lord]

what are you concerned about with the s04? how to get there? and keep all else the same?

That high of SO4 puts the ratio at very bitter and very dry so I'm planning on cutting back on that and leaving the rest, pretty much the same. 2 to 1 is more of what I'm used to but I've never used this profile before and it seemed to me to be a bit much.

 

[Dustin_J]

What's the highest ppm sulfate you've used in similar beers? Was the minerally-ness off-putting or particularly noticeable? There are probably some individual differences in both perception and preference at play here, so there's no single right answer for how much is too much. I can say that with my preferences, system, and how I tend to brew these sorts of beers, 275 ppm would be WAY too much - probably borderline, if not completely, undrinkable. 125-150 is about my upper limit, with Chloride usually in the 50-75 ppm range to go along with it.

 

[Dgallo]

That high of SO4 puts the ratio at very bitter and very dry so I'm planning on cutting back on that and leaving the rest, pretty much the same. 2 to 1 is more of what I'm used to but I've never used this profile before and it seemed to me to be a bit much.

gotcha, That was going to be my response regarding So4 over 200ppm

 

[Beer-lord]

What's the highest ppm sulfate you've used in similar beers? Was the minerally-ness off-putting or particularly noticeable? There are probably some individual differences in both perception and preference at play here, so there's no single right answer for how much is too much. I can say that with my preferences, system, and how I tend to brew these sorts of beers, 275 ppm would be WAY too much - probably borderline, if not completely, undrinkable. 125-150 is about my upper limit, with Chloride usually in the 50-75 ppm range to go along with it.

My highest so far was about 225 and I didn't get any mineral or off tastes but it was a bit too bitter for me. Maybe the dryness added to it. A great majority of my pales and IPA's are under 200 but I recently did a recipe from the Electric Brewery (his IPA) and it was 225 and I actually thought it was damn near perfect!

 

[cmac62]

I'm not the greatest with math, but 110 to 275 does not look like 4:36 to 1 (whatever this means) to me. Am I missing something or is 110 to 275 closer to 2.2 to 1

 

[Beer-lord]

Hmmm, now I'm feeling stupid. That makes sense but both Beersmith and Brewer's Friend gave me similar ratios. Even when I drop SO4 down to just below 200, it shows "SO42-/Cl- ratio: 3.8 More Bitter". Am I possibly reading this incorrectly?

 

[Dustin_J]

Cl is Chloride, I think the 110 you're looking at is Calcium. 275/50 = 5.5, 200/50 = 4, etc.

Don't get too hung up on the Sulfate:Chloride ratio per se, beers with 300 ppm each, for example, will taste a different than those with 10 ppm each, even though it's the same ratio- it's a loose guideline at best.

 

[Dgallo]

Hmmm, now I'm feeling stupid. That makes sense but both Beersmith and Brewer's Friend gave me similar ratios. Even when I drop SO4 down to just below 200, it shows "SO42-/Cl- ratio: 3.8 More Bitter". Am I possibly reading this incorrectly?

Your cl is 50 to 275 so4. So so4 is 5.5 to 1 ratio to chloride. You calcium is 110. So idk why that number is being compared to so4. When people discuss the ratio they are usually talking about cl to so4

 

[Beer-lord]

Thanks for all the info guys!

 

[cmac62]

Cl is Chloride, I think the 110 you're looking at is Calcium. 275/50 = 5.5, 200/50 = 4, etc.

Don't get too hung up on the Sulfate:Chloride ratio per se, beers with 300 ppm each, for example, will taste a different than those with 10 ppm each, even though it's the same ratio- it's a loose guideline at best.

Oops, messed that one up.