Water help

[seagondollar]

Ive been diving into the water characteristics and beer lately, because my pale ales seem to be lacking (SRM less than 8 id say). Im in arvada colorado and according to brewers friend, my water is as follows:

Ca: 50ppm
Mg: 1ppm
Na: 16ppm
Cl: 12ppm
So4: 38ppm
Alkalinity: 40
Ph 7.6

With that in mind, when i got my water quality report last week from arvada water everything was generally the same except for the calcium totals. It lists calcium hardness as 30 and calcium total as 12. Does anybody know what the difference is there? Or what number goes in my water software for calcium totals? Might be a dumb question, be gentle.

 

[stpug]

I don't agree that your BF numbers are close to the report you've obtained from the water district (in the general vicinity, but not overly close). There are some differences for sure, and your water report actually indicates a softer water profile than BF does. With the minimal mineral content on your water report I can understand why your pale ales are "lacking". You probably want to look into increase most of those mineral contents, particularly sulfates.

Sorry I can't provide more specific/detailed/in-depth information than that, but I'm no water scientist - I'm just a homebrewer

 

[stpug]

For instance, here's a mineral content used by many homebrewers for pale ales and IPAs. I believe this is the "Tastys water profile":

Ca=110
Mg=18
Na=16
Cl=50
S04=279

Here's your latest report numbers:

Ca=12
Mg=2.8
Na=5.3
Cl=?
SO4=21

You can see that the mineral profile used here has significantly more ion content that your base water, especially in the sulfate category. This is not to say that you need to push for those levels, but half-way there should at least be your goal for the style of beers you mentioned. And it should be easily accomplished with Gypsum, Calcium Chloride, Epsom salt (maybe), and lactic acid to get your pH in range (maybe).

 

[Braufessor]

By the looks of it, you have some pretty fine water to start with - relatively low mineral content in general. Low alkalinity which is key. Check out the "Brew Science" sub forum for lots of water details. There is a water chemistry "sticky" at the top of the page that has lots of great basic info for dealing with water in a "general" sense.

That said, If you want to try something very simple and not delve to far in right away, I would say to try adding 1 tsp (assuming 5 gallon batch) of gypsum to the boil of your next hoppy pale ale. That will bump the sulfate level up, and your other numbers are basically fine already.

You don't say if you are brewing extract or all-grain. For all grain brewing, your main consideration is mash pH and there is more to that than just making additions of salts.

You will get a much more precise answer about your calcium numbers in the brew science forum if you don't get it here..... I don't know all of the in's and out's of the chemistry and various ways of measuring each variable either. I would say my water knowledge is more along the line of application - not so much in regard to a deep understanding of the chemistry itself.

*Also - make sure you are getting chlorine/chloramine out of your tap water if you are not - carbon filter or campden tablets. Otherwise, some additional sulfate (gypsum) and I think your hoppy pale ales will pop a little better.

 

[seagondollar]

Im AG By the way. Well, i got my answer from the water lady. Pretty much went cross eyed as i was reading her email, was hoping for more of a "puppy who lost his way" type of response, but i got the gist of what she is saying. This is what she said:

As for the Chloride - our average is 12.0 mg/L.

Calcium is the total calcium

Ca Hardness is the Total Calcium hardness plus Mg Hardness as a calculation as CaCo3. see the following.

Total permanent water hardness is calculated with the following formula:

TOTAL PERMANENT HARDNESS = CALCIUM HARDNESS + MAGNESIUM HARDNESS

The calcium and magnesium hardness is the concentration of calcium and magnesium ions expressed as equivalent of calcium carbonate. The molar mass of CaCO3, Ca2+ and Mg2+ are respectively 100,1 g/mol, 40,1 g/mol and 24,3 g/mol.
The ratio of the molar masses are:


So total permanent water hardness expressed as equivalent of CaCO3 can be calculated with the following formula:

 

[seagondollar]

By the looks of it, you have some pretty fine water to start with - relatively low mineral content in general. Low alkalinity which is key. Check out the "Brew Science" sub forum for lots of water details. There is a water chemistry "sticky" at the top of the page that has lots of great basic info for dealing with water in a "general" sense.

That said, If you want to try something very simple and not delve to far in right away, I would say to try adding 1 tsp (assuming 5 gallon batch) of gypsum to the boil of your next hoppy pale ale. That will bump the sulfate level up, and your other numbers are basically fine already.

You don't say if you are brewing extract or all-grain. For all grain brewing, your main consideration is mash pH and there is more to that than just making additions of salts.

You will get a much more precise answer about your calcium numbers in the brew science forum if you don't get it here..... I don't know all of the in's and out's of the chemistry and various ways of measuring each variable either. I would say my water knowledge is more along the line of application - not so much in regard to a deep understanding of the chemistry itself.

*Also - make sure you are getting chlorine/chloramine out of your tap water if you are not - carbon filter or campden tablets. Otherwise, some additional sulfate (gypsum) and I think your hoppy pale ales will pop a little better.

Much appreciated, thank you so much.

 

[Braufessor]

If all-grain, you could add that gypsum to your mash.

Ultimately, with a hoppy pale ale, your main goals would be:

1.) No chlorine/chloramine in your brewing water
2.) Mash pH of 5.3/5.4 ish
3.) Keep sparge water alkalinity low (25ppm) ( batch sparging makes this less of an issue). Your water is already probably pretty close. Could cut with RO water if needed or add a small amt. of lactic acid to accomplish this. You would have to calculate it with a spreadsheet/water program..... but my guess is you would be talking a very small amt..... 1 or 2ml maybe?
4.)Get sulfate levels to 150-250 range to start, and then adjust for taste in future batches.

Do all of this with as few additions as possible. Like I said, gypsum is probably the main thing you want to add at this point. In general, stay away from additions that add alkalinity...... it is rare you want to add alkalinity, and almost never in a pale beer. It would be more a consideration for a porter/stout type beer.