Water Heater as HLT

[bja]

Steak toaster

Is it too late to patent this?

 

[Rcbandl]

Its pretty obvious the OP didnt want any opinions and just wanted praise for an idea that very few people think is a good one.

Bottom line is most brewers that care about the taste of their beer would never consider using a standard water heater. Mainly because an old saying that if the water doesnt taste good your beer wont taste good and most of us agree that hot water from a heater tastes like crap.

My proposal in response to the OP is get yourself a large SS pot, install a heating element with a controller and use that. The cost will be close to a new water heater and you can drain and clean between brew days.

Its a much better solution and wont give you crappy tasting water that an enclosed water heater would.

 

[augiedoggy]

It's funny that people are arguing and name calling over water heaters. I don't think anybody in this thread ever eluded to using your junkyard find to store brew water. In fact, on the first page I replied to the OP that if you get a new water heater I didn't see any problems.

And, yes. There's a huge downside with using the water heater in the picture you provided. There's a big hole in the side. The water won't stay in.

The thing is that despite what your suggesting water heater didnt get corroded like that from being in the junkyard at least for the most part.... it was like that (Besides the hole cut in it ) while in use, and for the average person who has a hot water tank they are not brand new or not new for long... So unless you plan on replacing it every year there's a good chance it not nice and clean inside but rather rusty and loaded with sediment. Some people are either intentionally dancing around this just to argue or there is two conversations going on here... I understand a new water heater would be fine... my concern and comment were in regard to the majority of them found in a home brewers home that aren't new and they wont stay that way for long.

Way back on that first page when you made the comment (That I agree with BTW) it was pretty apparent by his comments at the time that Owly055 was not talking about a "New" water heater specifically..his comments actually then Very much eluded to using any old water heater stating they actually made the water cleaner. That story seemed to change when he stated he was talking about using a new heater much later in the thread.. other member here picked up on that as well and pointed it out.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Based on this discussion, I put a glass of hot water and a glass of cold water in the fridge last night, they taste the same to me.

The heater is a little over a year old. To get the old one out of the basement, I cut it in pieces, and yes it looked like the photo above.

For anyone on city water, have you ever seen the inside of a water main? Sediment and mineral deposits are common.

I'll confess, I have brewed with the hot water.....

 

[bja]

Based on this discussion, I put a glass of hot water and a glass of cold water in the fridge last night, they taste the same to me.

The heater is a little over a year old. To get the old one out of the basement, I cut it in pieces, and yes it looked like the photo above.

For anyone on city water, have you ever seen the inside of a water main? Sediment and mineral deposits are common.

I'll confess, I have brewed with the hot water.....

Hmm, I'm still waiting for the "you poisoned your beer with hot tap water" replies...

 

[Owly055]

The thing is that despite what your suggesting water heater didnt get corroded like that from being in the junkyard at least for the most part.... it was like that (Besides the hole cut in it ) while in use, and for the average person who has a hot water tank they are not brand new or not new for long... So unless you plan on replacing it every year there's a good chance it not nice and clean inside but rather rusty and loaded with sediment. Some people are either intentionally dancing around this just to argue or there is two conversations going on here... I understand a new water heater would be fine... my concern and comment were in regard to the majority of them found in a home brewers home that aren't new and they wont stay that way for long.

Way back on that first page when you made the comment (That I agree with BTW) it was pretty apparent by his comments at the time that Owly055 was not talking about a "New" water heater specifically..his comments actually then Very much eluded to using any old water heater stating they actually made the water cleaner. That story seemed to change when he stated he was talking about using a new heater much later in the thread.. other member here picked up on that as well and pointed it out.

Please provide the quotes where I "eluded" to using any old water heater....... That was your illusion, not my allusion. Perhaps you need to work on you English a tad ;-) Please stop spreading your illusions about my allusions, and discontinue your elusion of responsibility for misrepresenting my words, and let others draw their conclusions from my actual words.

Seriously, I have a difficult time understanding how you reach the conclusion that water coming from the hot water tap is less pure than water from the cold tap.....it's pretty obvious that the deposits you see are deposits of material that has been removed from the water along with a bit of rust, which also is in the deposits not in the water. I personally would be far more concerned about all the junk that's slipping by the cold water tap, than what's been removed by the water heater. It's pretty obvious that your hot water is considerably more pure than your cold water. Every pound of junk deposited in the water heater is a pound of junk that didn't end up in your hot water and did end up in your cold water. That's a pretty inescapable conclusion if you look at it with any degree of intellectual honesty! I can only imagine what your innards look like if you've been drinking the cold water from your tap!!

H.W.

 

[augiedoggy]

I think you guys are getting it backward........ The build up in your water heater comes from your water....... It's precipitating out in the water heater... from your water, which means that it is NOT in your hot water, but it IS in your cold water. In reality it is purifying your water, not the other way around. Think about it............... When you use cold water, that stuff all goes right into your beer. It's like saying "I won't use filtered water because look at all that crap that's in the filter".

This is a topic that really does need to be examined a bit more closely, and more realistically. The gunk in your water heater is from the water......not from the water heater. I would suggest that someone do a simple test. Take two 1 containers, fill each one with the same amount of water each day. One from the hot tap, one from the cold, then boil the water away. Do this for a few months, and look at the accumulation in each. The one that has used hot water will have less accumulation than the one that used cold water....... because some of it dropped out in the water heater. I discovered this years ago with coffee makers. Fill your coffee maker with hot water instead of cold, and the build up is slower.........

H.W.

This quote suggests that using a water heat water heater purifies the water. and that you drink from it everyday when making your coffee. It doesnt say anything about a new water heater... When another member chimes in about it being unwise unless its a new heater you remained silent about it. In fact that isnt mentioned at all until later in the thread When another person who gets the same impression that your taking about an existing water heater chimes in and you then state it would be a new install..

 

[augiedoggy]

Frankly I have yet to see an argument that really was sound that would discourage me from using water from my water heater. It is by the way....

H.W.

There it is again... That looks like your referencing your existing hot water heater and not a brand new one... especially since you made no reference to that at all until enough people advised against what you originally proposed...and then theres the whole lead from your pipes factor if your house was built before 1986

 

[day_trippr]

Stop applying CPR to this thread and let it die in peace.
Whatever point there was to be made must've been made by now...

Cheers!

 

[FloppyKnockers]

I already made the point...it was about potatoes.....a mod deleted it.

 

[1977Brewer]

I already made the point...it was about potatoes.....a mod deleted it.

Steak toaster.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

Steak toaster.

Well said.

 

[augiedoggy]

Stop applying CPR to this thread and let it die in peace.
Whatever point there was to be made must've been made by now...

Cheers!

I have to agree.. I was just defending my comment.

 

[Owly055]

My friend who just started brewing cranked his water heater up to 170, and it hits the mash tun at almost exactly 162, dropping 10 deg when the grain is added. Yesterday he did a mash like this..... leaving it all afternoon while he was at work, doing his boil when he got home....... a full hour boil. He's doing an odd batch size with 5 gallons of strike water.... I don't know what his batch in the fermenter is.......... He's still trying to figure his equipment out.... It's only his third brew. He's boiling on a outdoor turkey fryer burner. I'm going to talk to him about making a shield to reduce the time to boil.

H.W.

 

[applescrap]

My friend who just started brewing cranked his water heater up to 170, and it hits the mash tun at almost exactly 162, dropping 10 deg when the grain is added. Yesterday he did a mash like this..... leaving it all afternoon while he was at work, doing his boil when he got home....... a full hour boil. He's doing an odd batch size with 5 gallons of strike water.... I don't know what his batch in the fermenter is.......... He's still trying to figure his equipment out.... It's only his third brew. He's boiling on a outdoor turkey fryer burner. I'm going to talk to him about making a shield to reduce the time to boil.

H.W.

Thats just awesome. ....so just let it sit all day ehh...i still dont get it

 

[augiedoggy]

Thats just awesome. ....so just let it sit all day ehh...i still dont get it

Seems like a lot of wasted energy costs just to save 30 minutes on a brewday.. thats just my thoughts though... I brew for fun as a hobby though so the process doesn't bother me. Also I dont brew every other day like some here with iron livers... maybe it does make sense then.

 

[applescrap]

Seems like a lot of wasted energy costs just to save 30 minutes on a brewday.. thats just my thoughts though... I brew for fun as a hobby though so the process doesn't bother me. Also I dont brew every other day like some here with iron livers... maybe it does make sense then.

Im sure you are not alone....once im set up if i can be pretty quick i might use cold tap water because the tank is a little sketchy and i trust the cdc...i personally dont like the word brewday....its not a big trip to me....i brew i drink i brew. I dont have a smoker day either...i throw stuff in smoker and i smoke it. i brew when i feel like it. i have kids i don't want to spend a day doing anything other than golfing or loving them. I can't fault anyone for wanting to spend five or six hours brewing I spend five or six hours golfing many of you would see that as a waste of time....i have other stuff to do and family comes first so hot water works for now....when i get older maybe retire perhaps i might change...i have been drinking craft beers for over 22 years the beer i brew is killer and is done and cleaned up in 3.5 hours why would I want to make it longer....the water tastes good to me i trust my tongue. My next beer that founders Breakfast i am assuming would be difficult to taste to much through all that coffee and chocolate....i think the process is somewhat forgiving.....i appreciate your honesty

 

[Owly055]

Seems like a lot of wasted energy costs just to save 30 minutes on a brewday.. thats just my thoughts though... I brew for fun as a hobby though so the process doesn't bother me. Also I dont brew every other day like some here with iron livers... maybe it does make sense then.

"wasted energy", "iron livers", implications that people who want to save time on brew day must not enjoy brewing. You have fallen into slanders and distortions, first presenting arguments that you could not in any way support, having to do of all things with your goldfish, and cut away photos of water heaters. Suggesting that I had advocating hauling water heaters out of the junk yard to use for HLTs, and implying that because I use my household water heater on every brew, this somehow supports that absurd assertion. My 2.5 to 3 gallon brews on a weekly basis (which I share with friends), makes me a hopeless alcoholic with an "iron liver".... compared to someone who brews 11 gallons once a month, and obviously I must not like brewing or enjoy the process, as I seek to reduce my brew day. And of course there is the absurd assertion about energy efficiency. Get real. It is the heating season. Where is energy wasted? Last time I checked most water heaters were in the house..... Is energy released in the house wasted or lost? Consider the fact that every BTU that finds its way into the house from the water heater is a BTU that the furnace doesn't have to produce....... DO YOU live in the real world? Consider also the fact that he turns the heater up in the morning when he gets up on brew day, and turns it down after drawing his strike water. Consider also the fact that he heats outdoors with a propane burner, at current ambient temps of below freezing, using a barbeque bottle from the local exchange..... At around a dollar a pound for propane (4.25 pounds per gallon)... Do the math.
The fact is that you have been dragging this thread down with absurd unsupported nonsense from your first post. It was intended to be a real fact based discussion of the advantages and disadvantages or that strategy and you have made a determined and successful effort to reduce it to the level of an adolescent food fight.

Your turn.......... get the last word in. You are making an ass of yourself!!


H.W.

 

[augiedoggy]

Your being ridiculous. Don't get your panties in a bunch. I never said anything about hauling things out of the garbage. I posted a picture of a used hot water tank that was at the end of its life and was cut open to show how they corrode to get to that point over their lifespan I assumed you were bright enough to figure out just as I assumed you understood that it takes a lot more electric or gas to keep the average 40 gallon household hot water tank at 170 degrees instead of 120..I don't know How you installed your hot water tank but most are vented so the heat from the gas goes right out a chimney or power vent, hardly using the energy wisely to heat your house.
I also linked information from the aquarium community to show the water from a hot water tank is not as wonderful as you think I guess you didn't see the connection but if it messes up an aquarium by causing alge blooms and making fish sick it also probably not as good as a basis for beer as the coldtap water.

Your posts usually have a common theme and that it making your brewing time as simplified and short as possible, thats usually the motivation behind making a chore less work. If I were chef and I went on bragging about how I buy all my veggies prechopped and save a ton of time by throwing it in the microwave instead of wasting time with a stove or oven would you get the impression that I enjoyed my profession ? The average person probably doesn't.

Your the one who changed gears mid thread regarding using an existing household hot water tank vs a new dedicated once it was pointed out that it's not a good idea in houses with copper plumbing, but yeah that info is somehow gibberish because it was not the "facts" you were looking for right? ... You want to discuss only the facts as you see them.
And yes I live in the real world... I use electric to brew indoors myself...costs under a dollar in electricity to heat my hlt... I would thinkif it was such a hardship to brew outdoors with propane then maybe the stove would be a better option? After all it's just water? Especially if it's only 3 gallons like you brew.

 

[slym2none]

I, for one, never saw an implication that anyone was a "hopeless alcoholic".

You know what "they" say about assuming?

 

[hunter_le five]

Steak toaster

Steak toaster.

I see your steak toaster, and raise you one... whatever this thing is.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=510094

 

[BlkWater_brewer]

Many Nano breweries bypass the HLT by using commercial on-demand water heaters capable of 170 degree's. Which BTW about 90% of all new home water heaters won't reach 170 for safety reasons. For 5-10-15 gallon batches, what's the point? Just setting up a 5bbl system with no HLT. Hot water from an on-demand system will taste no different than cold, it's the storage tank type heaters that will give off flavors.

 

[BierMuncher]

A couple of OT posts set on personal attacks have succeeded in closing an otherwise productive thread. You know who you are. So do we. Everyone pour a pint and decide if you want to belong to this pub or not.

 

[1977Brewer]

Many Nano breweries bypass the HLT by using commercial on-demand water heaters capable of 170 degree's. Which BTW about 90% of all new home water heaters won't reach 170 for safety reasons. For 5-10-15 gallon batches, what's the point? Just setting up a 5bbl system with no HLT. Hot water from an on-demand system will taste no different than cold, it's the storage tank type heaters that will give off flavors.

Well, there's always having a visitor blanch the skin off their hands after they take a leak. Gotta look at all of the angles.

 

[BierMuncher]

Resume on topic discussions at will fellas (and gals).