Silver_Is_Money
Larry Sayre, Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
Errors on the kettle water line and the mash pH line.
Errors on the kettle water line and the mash pH line.
The water dropdowns are working. Will send screenshot in a PM.
@RPIScotty, modifying the boil time or boil-off rate changes the estimated mash pH... that's very odd. And I can see it's doing that because adjusting those boil values changes the mineral gram values.
The g/gal mineral additions should all be relative to the strike water; they shouldn't have anything to do with the boil volumes.
Am I misunderstanding something?
It's because of the way you're calculating the raw gram weights in B31:F31 based on the grams/gallon values in B30:F30. I believe you should be using gallons = strike + sparge. But instead you are subtracting the boil-off amount from that, or gallons = strike + sparge - boil-off. This is the case for all of the mash mineral cells.
For mash acid additions, you are using only gallons = strike. So there is some inconsistency in these formulae that you might want to take a look at.
The water dropdowns are working. Will send screenshot in a PM.
The minerals and pH are working well now, thanks!
Another tweak: The Shrinkage Loss and SRM are tied to the Batch Volume rather than the Post-Boil Volume. You can see how it doesn't make sense if you enter a value for Batch Volume that is out of whack with the other volumes. As a result, Fermenter and Packaged volumes don't correctly follow the mash/boil continuum of volume losses.
At this point, I'm content to modify these things on my local copy. If you change the fundamental science stuff, I'll definitely want to amend it... but I like the ability to customize the process-oriented elements so they make sense to me. SRM doesn't change even if you lose all but one drop of the post-boil volume, so that's definitely a flawed calculation.
Maybe it's in the documentation, but are you assuming that salts are added to the strike volume only, or to the strike and sparge volumes together (which are then separated)? The formulae seem inconsistent in that department, or maybe I just haven't figured it out yet.
Thanks again.
SRM calculations are based on preboil volume.
1.) If you No-Sparge, sparge Volume will be zero and the additions calculate based on strike volume alone.
So right now, the spreadsheet assumes that:
1) Salt weights are calculated based on the total water (strike+sparge); and
2) Mash salts are added only to the strike volume.
This means the program always assumes that you sparge with your unadulterated source water. It won't (currently) calculate a situation where one adds salts to the total water (strike+sparge), but separates that water into strike and sparge volumes. In that instance, all of the water will have the same ppm concentrations.
Right now, if I calculate a no-sparge, the ppm values are whatever they are... but if I re-do the water and split it into 50/50 strike/sparge volumes, the ppm values show up as doubled in the mash. Of course, when one adds salts to the TOTAL volume and splits up the water, that doesn't happen. The ppm values stay constant.
Again, I'm not sure if that's in the docs, but best to point it out, so people know how to work with the program.
Pre-Boil? I highly doubt that. Did you mean post-Boil?
FYI: The latest fix you implemented has it working properly in Linux using LibreOffice. I'm now seeing predicted mash pH values. Thanks!!!
Another issue? I believe that what I'm seeing when I add minerals to the mash is that the spreadsheet seems to be assuming that they are also being added to the sparge water. Is my assessment here correct?
I had mash set for 4.3125 gallons and sparge for 4.333 gallons, and when I added 1.043478 grams/gallon of CaCl2 dihydrate (I assume you are defaulting to the dihydrate) in order to add 4.5 grams to my mash water, the spreadsheet said I had added 9.02 grams. But at the same time, only 4.5 grams is being picked up with regard to the ppm's of Ca++ and Cl- ions in the finished beer. A minor glitch, but something isn't quite adding up here.
RPIscotty, Thankyou for taking the time to put this together!
For mash and sparge both set to 5 gallons, it still doubles the grams added, but does not double the overall ions contribution that occurs when the mash and sparge waters are merged, For that it cuts them in half. The ions contribution is the part that is correct. The grams indicated is incorrect.
What is needed is a separate entry line for minerals to mash and to sparge waters.
When I add 4.5 grams of CaCl2-2H2O the program indicates that I have added 9 grams (in the box immediately below where the 0.9 grams are entered for 5 gallons, whereby 5 * 0.9 = 4.5 grams). But it correctly puts only 4.5 grams worth of mineral ions into the system.
The error is on row 31, where the mash water and sparge water are summed and then this sum is multiplied times 0.9. Remove the sparge water and multiply the grams/gallon addition with the mash water only and the problem goes away. Can I fiddle with my copy and make this happen?
When I add 4.5 grams of CaCl2-2H2O the program indicates that I have added 9 grams (in the box immediately below where the 0.9 grams are entered for 5 gallons, whereby 5 * 0.9 = 4.5 grams). But it correctly puts only 4.5 grams worth of mineral ions into the system.
The error is on row 31, where the mash water and sparge water are summed and then this sum is multiplied times 0.9. Remove the sparge water and multiply the grams/gallon addition with the mash water only and the problem goes away. Can I fiddle with my copy and make this happen?
Try a case study for me if you would. I brewed an oatmeal stout and estimated pH using all of the common tools. This new spreadsheet is the only outlier, and maybe you can poke around and tell me why.
4.2 lbs grain, 4 gal full volume mash with distilled water
70% Golden Promise 3L
9% Flaked Barley 2.2L
7% Flaked Oats 2.2L
7% Roasted Barley 550L
3% Carafa II 425L
4% Crystal 60 60L
Salts added to full volume mash:
1.2g gypsum (0.3g/gal)
1.4g CaCl (0.35g/gal)
0.9g baking soda (0.225g/gal)
Mash water profile (rounded) Ca 44, Mg 0, Na 16, Cl 45, SO4 44
Estimated mash ph:
Bru'n Water 5.49
Brewer's Friend 5.51
MpH 5.48
Water 5.8
Thoughts? I don't think you need the boil-off and other stuff, but let me know if you do. About 2.27 gal ends up in the fermenter.
This may be appalling to you, but I don't own a pH meter. Reading about others' experiences with them, it seems like an enormous pain and just one more gadget to obsess over.
So I've used the Brewer's Friend pH estimates for dozens of batches now, and have practiced the art of empiricism whereby I've observed what stout tastes like at 5.5 or 5.3 or whatever, and have adjusted my targets accordingly.
So the estimates may be great, good, or indifferent, but the tool has been consistent and it has served me well in being able to reliably produce beer of a desired quality.
I use 5.4 or just below for very pale beers, 5.5 or just above for stouts, and somewhere in between for everything else, roughly based on color and desired smoothness/brightness.
Where do you find the DI ph? I did really quick search and couldn't find anything.
I renamed 'Mash Sauergut Acid %' as 'Acidulated Malts Acidity Factor', and placed a value of 240 in this field, and then I changed ' Sauergut Amount (ml)' to read 'Acidulated Malt (grams)', then lastly I changed the "Target pH" on the 'pH Reduction Data' sheet to a value of 5.35, and now I can input in the new 'Acidulated Malt (grams)' field my batches required grams of acidulated malt instead of ml of sauergut.
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