WARNING: Plastic buckets are not safe

[IffyG]

the uninformed just buy into whatever they are told.

That's the real problem. Scientific illiteracy runs rampant in our country and a direct consequence is that people believe just about anything reported in the news.

 

[BobbiLynn]

Nobody really has a clue, and these plastics issues seem still pretty new.

It's only been in the last few years, 10 years at the most, that people have started freaking out about plastic containers. Yeah, whatever, plastic is bad and all that. Get over it. No, you are not going to die from that, but, trust me, eventually you will die. Blame whatever you feel like blaming, your choice.

 

[SpeedYellow]

It's only been in the last few years, 10 years at the most, that people have started freaking out about plastic containers. Yeah, whatever, plastic is bad and all that. Get over it. No, you are not going to die from that, but, trust me, eventually you will die. Blame whatever you feel like blaming, your choice.

This, like some other responses, seem strangely aggressive to a possibly very legitimate concern about chemicals leaching into our foods. I don't see anybody (except perhaps the OP) screaming doom & gloom, but rather reasoned questions and perhaps precautions like using glass. Why all the hate?

 

[processhead]

The only plastic bucket warning that most of us ever really needed....

No hate here...

 

[BobbiLynn]

This, like some other responses, seem strangely aggressive to a possibly very legitimate concern about chemicals leaching into our foods. I don't see anybody (except perhaps the OP) screaming doom & gloom, but rather reasoned questions and perhaps precautions like using glass. Why all the hate?

Oh, sorry, I was not meaning to be hateful. Of all the things in this world that really can hurt you, seems like something really silly to worry about. But, that's just me, I will stay out of it.

Eat real butter, not margarine and everything will be alright. :cross:

 

[Puddlethumper]

This, like some other responses, seem strangely aggressive to a possibly very legitimate concern about chemicals leaching into our foods. I don't see anybody (except perhaps the OP) screaming doom & gloom, but rather reasoned questions and perhaps precautions like using glass. Why all the hate?

Hey, if you want to use glass and it makes you feel better, by all means, go for it. It's America, it's your money and your choice. Please, though, don't confuse spirited disagreement with hate. No one here has said one word about you as a human being - but many have said they disagree with the level of angst raised about this issue by the OP (please re-read the title of the thread).

I read bobbilyn's post and saw absolutely nothing in it that could be construed as hateful. Perhaps you are a little jumpy? The whole purpose of forums such as this is to give people the opportunity to say what they think and they believe. Now what I think (or what anyone else here thinks) may be completely different from your views. That freedom is guaranteed all of us by virtue of the fact that we were fortunate enough to be born Americans. I have no right to require you to agree with me, but then neither do you have the right to demand that anyone here agree with you. But even if we disagree I don't think anyone here hates anybody. But we do have the right to disagree.

Edit: i see Puddlethumper already addressed BPA.

Personally,I'd never expect government to protect us, considering their pathetic track record with anything related to food health (margarine, eggs, butter, ...). Nobody really has a clue, and these plastics issues seem still pretty new.

Please don't get me wrong on this point... I don't expect government to protect me from anything. But I do have a pretty good grasp of the mechanisms within the governement regulatory systems and the mind-set of the people who are running those systems. I also fully comprehend the educational qualifications of the people who are watch-dogging every one of these issues as soon as they are raised. Does government jump as soon as a "potential concern" is raised? Thank goodness, the answer is "no". Do they do the due dilligence the American taxpayer is paying for? In the vast majority of cases the answer is "yes"

But there will always be those who jump at every shadow that crosses their path. As I have said before, I choose to be concerned about those things that I know for a fact are things I should be concerned about. "Potentially legitimate" concerns are just that, "potentially legitimate", which means they may be nothing to be concerned about at all. But then, hey, this is still America, and we can all do as we feel is best for us.

 

[Puddlethumper]

That's the real problem. Scientific illiteracy runs rampant in our country and a direct consequence is that people believe just about anything reported in the news.

Well said.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Was th OP talking about this report ?

Chemicals in the everyday products we use in our homes may be negatively affecting our hormones, says a newly-released study by WHO, the World Health Organization.

Was the OP talking about this report ?

We could start a whole new thread looking into the motivations and politics of the WHO.

 

[lowtones84]

There are a lot of aggressively negative responses. I feel like people would really not like to hear that something is wrong with fermenting in HDPE buckets, and have a surprisingly cynical view involving anything that could be wrong with our beloved buckets.

As for now nothing seems to be wrong with them, but some of these posts certainly don't do anything to encourage fair discussion about it, and may even discourage someone from posting a viewpoint other than the popular one.

Perhaps a new, more civil thread that stays on topic would be better? The original title and post is alarmist and I could see why it drew criticism, but there have been some other points that get completely overrun by aggressive denial that has no more scientific basis than any of the other arguments.

 

[IffyG]

Perhaps a new, more civil thread that stays on topic would be better? The original title and post is alarmist and I could see why it drew criticism, but there have been some other points that get completely overrun by aggressive denial that has no more scientific basis than any of the other arguments.

Switching the discussion isn't going to change the following:

1) most of the authors on the paper that stated the discussion have a major conflict of interest
2) the authors admit that they have no real sense of the biological implications of their findings other than they detected compounds that might impact physiology. They provided no evidence that anything they observed would have an effect in vivo
3) the methdology of their study was in the best case flawed and in the worst case, downright devious

The bottom line is that this is something worth keeping an eye one. However, I will be waiting for additional studies (that come out of labs without a conflict of interest) before abandoning my buckets/better bottles.

 

[Puddlethumper]

There have been quite a few well written posts on this thread and some that brought a chuckle. Thanks to those with a sense of humor! There's not much more to be said on this topic and those who will wait to react until they know there is a problem will remain pursuaded to follow that path. Those who choose to change their way of doing things as soon as some study reports a potential problem will also continue to follow their path.

To all I wish you well and happy brewing!

Goodnight.

 

[MalFet]

There's not much more to be said on this topic and those who will wait to react until they know there is a problem will remain pursuaded to follow that path. Those who choose to change their way of doing things as soon as some study reports a potential problem will also continue to follow their path.

...and those who think these are the only two options will continue to make grand proclamations?

 

[Epimetheus]

But if you let an actively fermenting alcoholic beverage sit in ANY plastic bucket for a week, it is quite likely you will be drinking estrogen-mimicking plastics.

Ah-HA I knew it! My man-****s are because of those estrogen-mimicking plastics, not because I am overweight!

 

[lowtones84]

No, it's not going to change any of those things, which I agree with you on. But it could cut down on some of the many argumentative posts and narrow the discussion into something more constructive than inflammatory. I completely agree that a more legitimate study would be great.

I'm not getting rid of my plastics either, because I have a batch of house Belgian pale in a bucket right now that I'm very excited about!

 

[40oz2freedom]

Biologically speaking: if you're a grown A$$ man, Meiosis and progeny suplementation is a non-factor. Let, er-RIP.

 

[BobbiLynn]

Ah-HA I knew it! My man-****s are because of those estrogen-mimicking plastics, not because I am overweight!

That's what I meant earlier, people can blame whatever they want for their man-****s. I do see the other side of the coin too though. well, actually, no I don't. I guess if I really stretch I can, someone must worry about what's safe and what's not safe. I just like to go by facts, like percentage of people who have died from it, or percentage of people who have suffered because of it, stuff like that. Proven facts. I said I'd stay out, but couldn't resist. Fun topic. No hate here, just saying....

 

[mooshimanx]

Meh, whatever. Everything in the entire world is not safe, including continuing to live since it just brings you closer and closer to death.

 

[GrogNerd]

everything is bad for you

Grog's rules for food #9 – no matter what you eat or don't eat, you will still die

and its corollary - no matter what you do or don't do, you will still die

Meh, whatever. Everything in the entire world is not safe, including continuing to live since it just brings you closer and closer to death.

agreed

 

[Denny]

Meh, whatever. Everything in the entire world is not safe, including continuing to live since it just brings you closer and closer to death.

But the key is how soon do you want to die? After 2 heart attacks and 2 grandchildren, I want to keep it as far away as possible. It's easy to be cavalier about death when you're young and healthy. I certainly was. These days, my attitude is a bit different.

 

[processhead]

Again, the issue here is not whether risk may be present. The issue is relative risk.

Is the risk to my well-being and longevity greater from some trace compounds that might be leached from a plastic pail, or from driving to work in the morning, or my penchant for BBQ ribs, or -enter your own risky behavior here_?

Is a barely detectable suspected level of risk worth the research dollars and public worry associated with the questionable or unknown benefit of it's elimination when you consider the far greater risks that we are all exposed to on a routine daily basis?

I feel like the priorities are misplaced on many levels here.

 

[lowtones84]

What do priorities have to do with anything? If it does end up that there is a potentially harmful compound even in our foodsafe HDPE buckets and I choose to avoid it, that in no way takes away from my ability to avoid other harmful things. What is wrong with wanting to know if there are potential risks involved with something I use frequently, regardless of how small the risk is?

There is this "F it, we're gonna die anyhow" attitude here that I just can't comprehend. It's not even about being lethal. Where does anyone say that (other than perhaps the misguided OP) our brewing plastics could be lethal? Also, as this is a homebrewing forum, I find the topic incredibly relevant. As I said before I'm not buying into it yet, but we as a group would certainly not want to admit that something we use frequently (and love!) could be potentially harmful. I'm under 30 and don't have children yet, and while I doubt there is much to this, but if there is I certainly want to know about it.

 

[TyTanium]

I found this magical golden circle thing that grants me unnatural long life, so I'm good.

Don't tell me about my plastic buckets, what would you know about it! Nothing! They are my buckets, my own, my precious plastic buckets. #thinbutter

 

[aubiecat]

I'm 50, I don't give a hoot.

 

[SpeedYellow]

What do priorities have to do with anything? ...

There is this "F it, we're gonna die anyhow" attitude here that I just can't comprehend. ...

+1. If scientists prove beer & coffee are unhealthy, then yeah my response is "screw it, I'm going to die anyway." But if they find that something so easily avoidable is unhealthy, you're a fool to brush it off. None of us are that stupid.

It boils down to perceived risks and cost/effort to avoid. So just like eating organic veggies -- we don't know the real differences of organic to our health, so if you wanna play it safe and pay the added cost, then fine, if not that's fine too. Because none of us knows the answer.

I also reject this scientific arrogance that "if it hasn't yet been discovered or learned, then it simply cannot be." Modern scientists, for many reasons, don't know sh** about weather or human health. That won't change any time soon.

 

[processhead]

What do priorities have to do with anything? If it does end up that there is a potentially harmful compound even in our foodsafe HDPE buckets and I choose to avoid it, that in no way takes away from my ability to avoid other harmful things. What is wrong with wanting to know if there are potential risks involved with something I use frequently, regardless of how small the risk is?

There is this "F it, we're gonna die anyhow" attitude here that I just can't comprehend. It's not even about being lethal. Where does anyone say that (other than perhaps the misguided OP) our brewing plastics could be lethal? Also, as this is a homebrewing forum, I find the topic incredibly relevant. As I said before I'm not buying into it yet, but we as a group would certainly not want to admit that something we use frequently (and love!) could be potentially harmful. I'm under 30 and don't have children yet, and while I doubt there is much to this, but if there is I certainly want to know about it.

Setting priorities becomes important in a world of finite resources.


We are all gonna die, no debating the point. We each can choose what we deem worth worrying about while we are living.

When others in control tell me what I need to worry about, or more to the point, what products I can purchase/consume, well, that becomes a bit more vexing.

 

[IffyG]

But if they find that something so easily avoidable is unhealthy, you're a fool to brush it off. None of us are that stupid.

The problem is that plastics in contact with food stuffs is simply unavoidable in modern life. Even if you give up fermenting in a plastic bucket, damn near everything else you are eating is (or has been) in contact with food grade plastics at some point...

 

[processhead]

The problem is that plastics in contact with food stuffs is simply unavoidable in modern life. Even if you give up fermenting in a plastic bucket, damn near everything else you are eating is (or has been) in contact with food grade plastics at some point...

That gets back to the risk vs benefit argument.

How great does the risk have to become before it outweighs all the other benefits that a product has brought to the quality of peoples lives?

 

[BobbiLynn]

That gets back to the risk vs benefit argument.

How great does the risk have to become before it outweighs all the other benefits that a product has brought to the quality of peoples lives?

When I walk down a sidewalk, there is the risk that a driver may fall asleep at the wheel and run me over. Does that keep me from using sidewalks? Nope. It's safer than walking in the street.

 

[GrogNerd]

When I walk down a sidewalk, there is the risk that a driver may fall asleep at the wheel and run me over. Does that keep me from using sidewalks? Nope. It's safer than walking in the street.

not getting this analogy...

are plastic buckets the sidewalks or the street?

is the sleeping driver the disruptors or the glass carboy?


Grog. Confused. Now.

 

[aubiecat]

I wonder how many smokers are avoiding plastic buckets for fear of contamination?