Warning about shipping with McMasterCarr

[brewman !]

Just a heads up on being careful shipping stuff with McMasterCarr.

I needed a small piece of copper tubing to put the thermistors in for my vessels.

I ordered part number 8967K2 from McMasterCarr, along with a whole bunch of little fittings. 8967K2 is a 6 foot long piece of 3/16" copper tubing. It sells for $7.61.

The order arrived in 2 parcels, one being a box will all the other fittings and the other being a 6' long cardboard tube.

The shipping on the box was $10.61, an excellent price for overnight service. I was happy with that.

The cardboard tube cost $40.18 to ship because its over length ! So I paid $40.18 to ship $7.61 worth of copper tubing !

The tubing could have been easily coiled into the box the other parts shipped with. That is what I was expecting. I bought some hose and it was coiled.

I called McMasterCarr and they said that was their standard operating procedure. If the product comes in a straight piece, they won't coil it.

I am very mad this happened. My wife is mad at me for wasting $40 on my stupid beer stuff now too. Not a great way to start the holidays !

 

[Yuri_Rage]

That surprises me! I've never had a problem with McMaster. In fact, once I gave them the wrong credit card information, and they shipped the parts before they called me to get the right info!

 

[runhard]

Thanks for the heads up on that one Brewman ! I need to order some items from them and I'll be certain to check on the length as well as quiz them on how the items will be packed and shipped. Sorry that this happened but your post could likely save others from experiencing the unfortunate circumstance.
Jeffrey

 

[brewman !]

I hope it does help someone. I've used McMasterCarr for years and they are always very good. I don't think I've ever been upset with them about something before. But this one time I am not very happy.

 

[Erbium:YAG]

I live in New Jersey and have placed orders with McMaster on a Sunday night online, and had my order delivered to me Monday afternoon at work. They run an incredibly efficient operation. As far as your copper tubing order goes, you'll just have to be careful next time. I had something similar happen when I ordered a cylinder of bernzomatic oxygen; because I couldn't find it in any of my area Home Depot or Lowes stores. Even though the cylinder was $7, I didn't stop and think it would be shipped as a hazardous substance. That one cost me $24 for shipping. It goes without saying; but I won't do that again. I did finally find one Home Depot that does stock it.

 

[user 4295]

There is no way that they would have one of their employees take the time of coiling up 6' lengths of copper tubing. First of all they would most likely kink it on you, and I'm sure that would have pissed you off even more. I know it would have if it were me.

Their mistake, IMO, is that they absolutely should have told you about the oversized parcel and the associated additional shipping charges. They are a great company, as you know, and I'll bet you that if you call them and explain to them that you should have been told about the oversized shipping charge that they will give you some sort of credit.

You would have been better off finding a plumbing or refrigeration supply house locally and purchasing a length of tubing from them.

John

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

There is no way that they would have one of their employees take the time of coiling up 6' lengths of copper tubing. First of all they would most likely kink it on you, and I'm sure that would have pissed you off even more. I know it would have if it were me.

Their mistake, IMO, is that they absolutely should have told you about the oversized parcel and the associated additional shipping charges. They are a great company, as you know, and I'll bet you that if you call them and explain to them that you should have been told about the oversized shipping charge that they will give you some sort of credit.

You would have been better off finding a plumbing or refrigeration supply house locally and purchasing a length of tubing from them.

John

Well said. The internets are a great resource, but sometimes they make it awfully easy to hide from your mistakes or confuse costumers with asinine policies. $40 to ship $5 worth of tubing? That should have tripped a red flag somewhere and a phone call to the consumer.... "Ummm... are you sure you want to pay that much for shipping????"


It seems they want all the income that comes from easy internet sales, but NONE of the unique responsibility that comes from taking orders online without interpersonal contact. That's freaking pathetic. Sales over the internets create certain issues and they should be handled appropriately. Thumbsdown on McMaster-Carr for cashing in without providing an acceptable level of support.

 

[Orfy]

Was shipping not added before you paid the bill?

When it come down to it it's up to the buyer to check before committing.

 

[brewman !]

Nope. They take the parts list and quote pricing and shipping is on top of that. Unlike places like Digikey, they don't email you before things are shipped. At least they don't for me.

I've probably bought $10K worth of stuff at McMasterCarr in the last 5 years. Easily.

Why did I buy a stupid little piece of copper from them ? Because otherwise I'd have to hop in my truck and chase around town trying to find that stupid little piece of copper. Meanwhile ever place I go to asks me what its for and why the heck I couldn't use {plastic, steel, rubber, wood, toothpicks, used kitchen sponges, etc}. I love McMaster Carr for finding the hard to find stuff.

I sent them an email saying I wasn't happy about that shipment.

 

[Orfy]

If you're a good customer then as a goodwill gesture the should try to keep you happy and refund.

 

[brewman !]

McMaster Carr adjusted my freight bill by eliminating the shipping charge for the smaller package, $10.81. I appreciate their gesture.

I'll be very careful about the shipping requirements of my orders in the future.

 

[the_bird]

Sounds like they did right by you, as well as could reasonably be expected. Good to hear.

 

[Erbium:YAG]

Well said. The internets are a great resource, but sometimes they make it awfully easy to hide from your mistakes or confuse costumers with asinine policies. $40 to ship $5 worth of tubing? That should have tripped a red flag somewhere and a phone call to the consumer.... "Ummm... are you sure you want to pay that much for shipping????"


It seems they want all the income that comes from easy internet sales, but NONE of the unique responsibility that comes from taking orders online without interpersonal contact. That's freaking pathetic. Sales over the internets create certain issues and they should be handled appropriately. Thumbsdown on McMaster-Carr for cashing in without providing an acceptable level of support.

You need to keep something in mind about McMaster. Their business model does not revolve around the hobbiest who is purchasing a handful of parts here and there. They are set up to take large bulk orders from businesses. Therefore shipping charges usually fall in line with quantity ordered. I seriously doubt that McMaster is "cashing in" on that shipment. Go and get a quote from UPS and I think you'll find that McMaster probably collected nothing on the shipping. My point is that McMaster does an outstanding job serving their customers and they don't need to be bad-mouthed because someone didn't think carefully enough. Like I said in my first post on this thread, "I did something similar". I'm not blaming McMaster. I just failed to put 2 and 2 together.

 

[Todd]

You need to keep something in mind about McMaster. Their business model does not revolve around the hobbiest who is purchasing a handful of parts here and there. They are set up to take large bulk orders from businesses. Therefore shipping charges usually fall in line with quantity ordered. I seriously doubt that McMaster is "cashing in" on that shipment. Go and get a quote from UPS and I think you'll find that McMaster probably collected nothing on the shipping. My point is that McMaster does an outstanding job serving their customers and they don't need to be bad-mouthed because someone didn't think carefully enough. Like I said in my first post on this thread, "I did something similar". I'm not blaming McMaster. I just failed to put 2 and 2 together.

I agree here, it was a bad assumption on your part to think they would coil the tubing, most are buying straight tube for that reason. Getting that stuff straight again sucks. Plus I think you got next day shipping right?

I realize it ended up costing you but this should be counted as a lesson learned.

 

[Bobby_M]

To your point erbiumyag, we ought to be cool ruffling feathers at Mcmaster before they institute a B2B only policy. We're lucky they actually sell to end users unlike Grainger and also have no order minimums. I've found their prices for most items to be average, but their selection is amazing. The only thing their site is lacking is a shipping quote before finalizing. You could easily add a memo to the order to please call with a shipping estimate prior to charging my card.

What if you wanted that piece of copper perfectly straight? Coiling it would probably piss more people off than not. I'd personally never expect a shipping charge that high, but then I've never asked for express shipping at all either.

Besides, they even list this item as "Not Bendable" and "Shipped as straight".


Part Number: 8967K2 $7.61 Each
Type
General Purpose Copper Tubing

Material
General Purpose Copper (Alloy 122)

Shape
Single Line

Outside Dia.
3/16" (.1875")

Outside Dia. Tolerance
±.002"

Inside Dia.
.1235"

Wall Thickness
.032"

Maximum Pressure
2,120 psi @ 70º F

Operating Temperature Range
-425º to +400º F

Metal Bendability
Not Bendable

Temper
Hard

Tensile Strength
High

Metal Construction
Seamless

Metal Flareability
Not Flareable

Sterilize With
Steam (autoclave)

Shipped As
Straight Length

Specifications Met
American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM)

ASTM Specification
ASTM B75

Compatible Fittings
Compression and Wrot Copper

Length
6'

 

[brewman !]

You need to keep something in mind about McMaster. Their business model does not revolve around the hobbiest who is purchasing a handful of parts here and there.

I'm an engineer. I build things for a living. This was a small "handful of parts order" for a hobby, but some of my business orders have been way worse ! Filling orders like that is their business. The size of the order and its content had nothing to do with it.

What is missing from their process is some sort of feedback system for shipping details. The way it is now you give them a parts list and they quote a price without shipping. I'm going to change how I work with them from now on to include a callback confirming the shipping details.

I agree here, it was a bad assumption on your part to think they would coil the tubing, most are buying straight tube for that reason. Getting that stuff straight again sucks. Plus I think you got next day shipping right?
I realize it ended up costing you but this should be counted as a lesson learned.

And what lesson might that be ?

I've ordered lots of SS tubing from them and they coiled that. I guess it depends on the tubing characteristics.

I made this order out from their catalog #112. The tubing is listed on page 125. And now that I reread it, it does say "Bendable: Straight lengths: No; Coils: yes;" in the fine print at the top. I guess I bought a straight length. But it sure is bendable. They have that wrong.

My initial mistake. Their process needs improving. If they would have said shipping would cost $50, we would have caught this problem before it resulted in a big bill.

Anyway, I got my parts, I learned something and I'll more than recover that cost if my steam masher makes excellent brews.

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

You need to keep something in mind about McMaster. Their business model does not revolve around the hobbiest who is purchasing a handful of parts here and there. They are set up to take large bulk orders from businesses. Therefore shipping charges usually fall in line with quantity ordered. I seriously doubt that McMaster is "cashing in" on that shipment. Go and get a quote from UPS and I think you'll find that McMaster probably collected nothing on the shipping. My point is that McMaster does an outstanding job serving their customers and they don't need to be bad-mouthed because someone didn't think carefully enough. Like I said in my first post on this thread, "I did something similar". I'm not blaming McMaster. I just failed to put 2 and 2 together.

You honestly think it's acceptable to have an internet sales model that does not quote shipping costs or at very least give you the option of accepting the charge before they ship?

I'm not trying to say McMaster sucks. They run a good business. But their practice definitely needs to get with the times.

 

[Erbium:YAG]

You honestly think it's acceptable to have an internet sales model that does not quote shipping costs or at very least give you the option of accepting the charge before they ship?

I'm not trying to say McMaster sucks. They run a good business. But their practice definitely needs to get with the times.

It's always nice to get a shipping quote before accepting charges and in reality I won't order online from anyone until I do. My exception is McMaster; because I know that they are going to charge me exactly what UPS is billing and nothing more. I do know that an oversized item, an item considered a hazardous substance or an item over 75 lbs will definitely cost considerably more. Under those circumstances, I don't need to know what they are going to bill me; because I can already figure out that it is probably going to be considerably more than the item is even worth; and then I simply don't order this online. I'll try to find it locally.

I too am an engineer and not too long ago I had to order a length of stainless steel tubing from them. This was an oversized item and it indeed cost more to ship than the item itself; but this is all rolled into the cost of doing R&D. The Purchasing manager in my company didn't get all hot in the ass and jump up and down screaming and yelling that we need to take the fight to McMaster. It was just simply understood.

Ultimately don't expect McMaster to change their system based on doing business with the general public. They are geared towards doing business with companies with repeat business. It is their model to be a more of a "supplier" and not a "retailer". When companies do business with them, it's a "given" that shipping charges will apply and they account for this. If McMaster was becoming abusive in shipping charges levied; they wouldn't stay in business long. In my profession, I have to deal with alot of outside vendors; and I honestly have yet to deal with one as fast and efficient as McMaster.

 

[brewman !]

and I honestly have yet to deal with one as fast and efficient as McMaster.

Actually, Digikey is better than McMaster. (www.digikey.com) But they are both really good. Boy is it a pleasure the deal with good suppliers compared to the bad ones.

But I do agree that McMaster should improve a bit more. They should be emailing invoices and tracking numbers and shipping info. I have to do my own purchasing on some of my projects and I love getting an email confirming things along with a tracking number and being able to watch things progress.

 

[Bobby_M]

I guess my perception of them is slightly skewed. They do ship from a NJ location no further than 10 miles from my house. The last time I had a problem with an item they shipped (the screw holes were not punched out on a piece of hardware that should have holes), they had replacements shipped overnight from Chicago 10 minutes after I called to complain. In fact, they didn't ask for proof, or to even return the defective parts.

While I always want to know what a mailorder outfit is going to charge to ship, it's usually only because of the widespread use of price search engines and inflated shipping costs to cover the lowball quote for the item. Once I know a company is simply recovering actually shipping costs, I could care less.

The downside to automated quotes is that it forces them to quote and charge high due to unknown factors like total order size. I'd rather put my faith in an honest company than to always pay more.

 

[brewman !]

The downside to automated quotes is that it forces them to quote and charge high due to unknown factors like total order size. I'd rather put my faith in an honest company than to always pay more.

This is getting off topic, but... We ship stuff all the time. When I'm looking for shipping services, I'm not looking to save the last $2, I'm looking for the service and the combination of stuff that makes it work for us. Like sometimes we need Saturday delivery. And not every shipper does that. Sometimes its going to weird places. Sometimes its an oddball sized part. Sometimes its an International shipment. That is what I want a shipping quote for.

What I want with a shipping quote is to make sure the services are right. I hate buying stuff from places that only have one shipper and its their way or the highway.

 

[dantodd]

McMaster rocks :rockin:

They provide an incredible assortment of products at reasonable prices and ship nearly instantaneously. In order to meet the needs of 99% of their customers who often use them for critical supplies they prioritize expediency of delivery over shipping cost. If they delayed each of their shipments an extra 24 hours and added the cost of a telephone operator to get approval of shipping costs for each order they'd be completely screwing up their business model and the vast majority of their customers.

 

[brewman !]

All you have to do is look at how Digikey does it. There is no 24hr hold. Digikey is better than McMaster, hands down. You can order way later in the day and still get it the next day. They email the buyer everything and its just so slick doing business with them.

www.digikey.com.

 

[dantodd]

different product line.

 

[Erbium:YAG]

I've never known McMaster to put a 24 hr hold on an order. I have more than once placed an order late Sunday evening and received my order Monday afternoon, effectively the SAME DAY. I have also always received email confirmations for any order placed with them.

 

[brewman !]

"different product line."

Makes no difference ! The process works. I've had larger Digikey shipments than McMasterCarr shipments. For the small stuff, its the same thing.

McMasterCarr doesn't email confirm telephone orders, which is how we place ours. Digikey will and does.

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

Ultimately don't expect McMaster to change their system based on doing business with the general public. They are geared towards doing business with companies with repeat business. It is their model to be a more of a "supplier" and not a "retailer". When companies do business with them, it's a "given" that shipping charges will apply and they account for this. If McMaster was becoming abusive in shipping charges levied; they wouldn't stay in business long. In my profession, I have to deal with alot of outside vendors; and I honestly have yet to deal with one as fast and efficient as McMaster.

My father is an engineer by training. For the past 30 years he's been selling building supply products- bricks, concrete blocks, chemical treatments, mortar, grout, etc for 5 different companies as an independent contractor. From time to time I help out.

I have NEVER heard of any of those companies shipping anything without a shipping quote. We're talking about everything from little pieces of plastic that will retail for less than a dollar, all the way up to full pallet, or truckload, of bricks. You always quote them a shipping price. Why? Because the buyer is factoring that into their decision to buy. And heck, from week to week, trucking costs may vary along with the cost of diesel or some obscure change in trucking laws. FedEx and UPS may be more stable, costwise, due to their ability to absorb costs over a very large fleet of trucks and warehouses, but that doesn't make them immune from surprises.

McMaster is offering a product (some two-bit piece of whatever). They are also offering a service (shipping). They clearly display the price for their merchandise. And they undoubtedly have more experience with the shipping companies that they volunarily choose to use than 99% of the people who order from them. So why should the consumer/buyer be the one who has to figure it out?

Again, I'm not ripping on McMaster. If you do not like having access to information, then that's cool. It just seems to me that, for a web-based business, it wouldn't be too difficult to automatically supply the information that would allow consumers to make a more informed decision.

 

[Bobby_M]

One way to handle it is to take your business elsewhere. Vote with your wallet. It may not do any good though because it probably costs them more to ship small orders (like ours) than they make in profit.
I said earlier that they would probably quote you shipping if you specially request it, it's just not a part of their normal process. There are some clever shipping cost estimating methods, but none of them are perfect. You can't work on weight alone because then that 8 foot piece of aluminum tubing will quote way too low. Even if you account for odd sizes, you still have to have an algorithm for combined items that fall within size limits and provide discounts. No matter what, you'll estimate high on some orders and low on others. While this nulls out for the vendor, the little guys like us feel ripped off. This is especially true with mcmaster because they sell such a range of products from a roll of bubble wrap to a huge piece of steel stock. There's just no size/weight consistency.