Ward Water Report - Seems Off

[msjtx]

I received my water report from Ward labs and utilized BeerSmith to try to make some adjustments for a blonde ale I just brewed. After three weeks I just racked it into a keg and it tastes good, but I am still detecting some bitterness that has characterized a couple of my recent all grain batches and led me to get my water analyzed in the first place.

According to the report, my PH is 8.1. But I question this because most high PH water I have seen is really high in bicarbonate and mine is not. Here are my numbers:

Na: 6
K: 2
Ca: 11
Mg: 8
Hardness: 61
SO4S: 1
Cl: 2
CO3: <1
HCO3: 78
CaCO3: 65

PH: 8.1

Is a PH that high possible with these numbers? For the Blonde I just brewed I added about 2 grams of gypsum and calcium carbonate.

Curious to hear thoughts from anyone with good water knowledge about how suitable this water is overall or if I should be looking at RO water with other additions? I realize it is dependent on style. I brew Stouts, English Bitters and Pale Ales mostly, but my wife and will forge out and try many different styles on occasion so we don't specifically stick with one profile.

Thanks in advance for your time!

Matthew

 

[Hermit]

My pH runs 10.8+. You call 8.1 high? Look at these numbers.

http://meanderwater.com/Portals/MeanderWater/Typical%20Water%20Analysis%20-%20January%202012.pdf

Get some second opinions on the flavor. Is it bitter? Could it be astringency? My guess is with that profile you could need to add some acid to the mash or you risk leaching some tannins. Read the sticky for the water primer. That is an excellent place to start. Since you have a water report put the numbers into one of the spreadsheets or http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/. You learn a lot when you use one of these tools. I like the brewersfriend when people ask questions because they can give a link for us all to look at. Doesn't mean you have to use that one for your final calculations but it is a good learning/collaboration tool.

If it is bitter then cut back on the gypsum. Again, this is in the Primer. Welcome to the forum.

 

[mabrungard]

Why did you add calcium carbonate? The alkalinity of your tap water is already too high for brewing a blonde and an external acid of some form should have been used. In addition, the sparging water needs to be acidified too.

It is possible that your beer is suffering from high pH effects.

Don't bother with the Primer, since your tap water is not low enough in mineralization to make it applicable. However, that water is a fine starting point for brewing. Its just that it sounds like you've chased the wrong rabbit. Your main impediment is the alkalinity level when brewing pale beers. I suggest you visit the Water Knowledge page on the Bru'n Water website to start learning why and what you need to be adjusting in your brewing water.

 

[duboman]

The gypsum is going to bring out the hop profile and accentuate so I would have passed on that addition for a blonde, Lactic acid should have been added to reduce the pH to acceptable ranges.

 

[ajdelange]

According to the report, my PH is 8.1. But I question this because most high PH water I have seen is really high in bicarbonate and mine is not. Here are my numbers:

Na: 6
K: 2
Ca: 11
Mg: 8
Hardness: 61
SO4S: 1
Cl: 2
CO3: <1
HCO3: 78
CaCO3: 65

PH: 8.1

Is a PH that high possible with these numbers?

It is entirely possible to have high pH water with 0 bicarbonate. This is why I get so bent out of shape when spreadsheets and calculators report such waters as containing bicarbonate. Yours contains potassium hydroxide and sodium hydroxide in addition to bicarbonate.

How recent is this Ward Labs report? It tentatively appears that they have fixed their problem with reports for waters with pH > 8 (though 8.1 is so close to 8 I'm deferring on breaking out the champagne).

For the Blonde I just brewed I added about 2 grams ... calcium carbonate.

Assume you mean calcium chloride here

Curious to hear thoughts from anyone with good water knowledge about how suitable this water is overall...

Pretty good stuff. The only real problem (and at this level it's hardly a big one) is that the alkalinity must be dealt with. You could cut with a couple of parts RO and follow the Primer or you could use all RO and supplement salts or you could simply knock out the alkalinity with some acid (phosphoric or lactic).

RO certainly makes life easier especially if you water is subject to seasonal (or other) variability.

 

[trentm]

How recent is this Ward Labs report? It tentatively appears that they have fixed their problem with reports for waters with pH > 8 (though 8.1 is so close to 8 I'm deferring on breaking out the champagne).

I have a similar concern as the OP. However, I have a pretty good new pH meter (Milwaukee model - MW102) that properly calabrated reads my water pH at 5.94, the Ward Lab report (dated 5/6/14) came in at 7.5. Although it may not make any difference as far a brewing application, I am curious as to why there is such difference in my reading compared to Ward Lab. Any thoughts?

pH 7.5
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 177
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.29

Cations / Anions, me/L

2.6 / 2.6

ppm
Sodium, Na 32
Potassium, K < 1
Calcium, Ca 11
Magnesium, Mg 7
Total Hardness, CaCO3 57
Nitrate, NO3-N 3.3 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 3
Chloride, Cl 44
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 55
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 45
Total Phosphorus, P 0.16
Total Iron, Fe 0.06
"<"

 

[msjtx]

It is entirely possible to have high pH water with 0 bicarbonate. This is why I get so bent out of shape when spreadsheets and calculators report such waters as containing bicarbonate. Yours contains potassium hydroxide and sodium hydroxide in addition to bicarbonate.

How recent is this Ward Labs report?

Less than a month old.

Assume you mean calcium chloride here

Yes, I did mean Calcium Chloride.

Pretty good stuff. The only real problem (and at this level it's hardly a big one) is that the alkalinity must be dealt with. You could cut with a couple of parts RO and follow the Primer or you could use all RO and supplement salts or you could simply knock out the alkalinity with some acid (phosphoric or lactic).

RO certainly makes life easier especially if you water is subject to seasonal (or other) variability.

I may do that, I appreciate all the help.

 

[ajdelange]

I have a similar concern as the OP. However, I have a pretty good new pH meter (Milwaukee model - MW102) that properly calabrated reads my water pH at 5.94, the Ward Lab report (dated 5/6/14) came in at 7.5. Although it may not make any difference as far a brewing application, I am curious as to why there is such difference in my reading compared to Ward Lab. Any thoughts?

The commonest situation that leads to this is when the water sample is from a well in a mesic region. In such regions subsurface bacteria respire releasing carbon dioxide resulting in partial pressures of that gas that are orders of magnitude higher than in the atmosphere. This results in dissolution of limestone, high hardness, high alkalinity and low pH. When this water is taken from the well it tries to come to equilibrium with the atmosphere. CO2 is given off and calcium carbonate precipitates (but sometimes as crystals too small to see). The loss of CO2 results in a climb in pH over time. If you send a sample off to a lab in a bottle that is less than 100.0% full the pH will be higher by the time the sample gets to the lab than when you grabbed it.

Looking at your test results, however, we do not see elevated hardness or alkalinity so this explanation doesn't quite fit. Nevertheless I'd try drawing a sample and letting it stand while checking pH every hour or so at first and then every couple of hours thereafter.

There may, of course, be a problem with the meter, the way you are using it... See the Sticky on pH meter calibration for tips and checks.