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[Brewbien]

Don't we need unmalted wheat in a lambic, like a lot of it?

Not necessarily, the only reason to use unmalted wheat (and a turbid mash),besides tradition, would be to get more unfermentable starches for the bugs to chew on. We can a similar effect, and a more consistent product amongst the many brewers, by using malted wheat and mashing at a higher temp.

 

[theveganbrewer]

Looks like BugFarm IV ECY01 is going up for sale today or tomorrow so hopefully I can score some vials that we can use for this brew. Once I get the yeast going and can make a little starter batch to inoculate the barrel, we should be ready to seriously get this underway. Getting this yeast is what I've been waiting around for so I hope I can get it this time around after unsuccessful attempts over the last couple months.

I will try and nab a couple vials of ECY01 and ECY02 if anyone else wants to use them.

 

[ElectricAlphaAcidTest]

What's the scoop on BugFarm? I may interested in an extra for a buddy.

 

[theveganbrewer]

Haven't gotten it yet still waiting to see if they put this batch up for online sales

 

[Ibrewaletx]

I would be very interested in a vial of ECY02 if it is available. I also like the idea of the malted wheat & higher mash temp vs. the unmalted wheat/protein rest.

 

[Ibrewaletx]

Not at all. I am thinking of a solera style like http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2010/03/sour-solera-beer-barrel.html

LOVE this idea (solera), this is why one homebrews!

 

[theveganbrewer]

I'm pretty pissed, I stayed awake until 6am yesterday waiting for them to put up their ECY01 and 02 and they never did. Not sure if they sold it all already or if they were busy doing something else. I'm going to wake up at 6 Monday and hope it's online.

Maybe on pitch day we can all gather with a bottle of Jolly Pumpkin each and pitch the dregs in together?

On the unmalted wheat, I'd like to know more about why we shouldn't use it. The more long sugars we have the better the beer will be. If you look at the Solera beer link above, they used a bunch of unmalted wheat and just mashed like normal.

Here was their schedule and grain bill:

Grain
-------
42.6% - 55.00 lbs. German Pilsener
37.1% - 48.00 lbs. American Pale Malt
7.9% - 10.25 lbs. Oatmeal
7.0% - 9.00 lbs. Unmalted Wheat
5.4% - 7.00 lbs. Wheat Malt

Mash Schedule
------------------
Sacch Rest - 90 min @ 156
Mash Out - 15 min @ 168

 

[Ibrewaletx]

I'm pretty pissed, I stayed awake until 6am yesterday waiting for them to put up their ECY01 and 02 and they never did. Not sure if they sold it all already or if they were busy doing something else. I'm going to wake up at 6 Monday and hope it's online.

I'm on night shift right now, at work until 6:30am- let me know if I can help out looking/ordering online in the wee hours of the morning.

As for the unmalted wheat, good point on keeping the long chains which will not require another rest in the mash (122F for example). I'm all for the unmalted wheat in that case.

 

[Brewbien]

On the unmalted wheat, I'd like to know more about why we shouldn't use it. The more long sugars we have the better the beer will be. If you look at the Solera beer link above, they used a bunch of unmalted wheat and just mashed like normal.

Here was their schedule and grain bill:

Grain
-------
42.6% - 55.00 lbs. German Pilsener
37.1% - 48.00 lbs. American Pale Malt
7.9% - 10.25 lbs. Oatmeal
7.0% - 9.00 lbs. Unmalted Wheat
5.4% - 7.00 lbs. Wheat Malt

Mash Schedule
------------------
Sacch Rest - 90 min @ 156
Mash Out - 15 min @ 168

I'm not saying we should or shouldn't use unmalted wheat, I'm saying that it wont make a difference because we aren't doing a turbid mash. Also, I prefer the flavor contribution of white wheat to regular malted/unmalted wheat. This thread should explain what I'm trying to say a little better. The mad fermentationist (oldsock on here) chimes in on this thread quite a bit.

 

[Mr_Pear]

You still taking people for this? I have a vial of ECY01 I picked up a couple of months ago and I could contribute 5-12 gallons.

 

[theveganbrewer]

Mr Pear, I'd be willing to give you 5 of my 20 gallon allotment if you could add the ECY01. Do you know if you can make starters with ECY, or does it have to be pitched as is so as not to alter the makeup?

 

[theveganbrewer]

I'm going to propose June 29th as our group pitch day. Let me know if you can do it. Well do a lambic style and a month will give everyone enough time to assemble ingredients, brew, and finish primary.

 

[Ibrewaletx]

I am at the beach June 27-July2, so I'll have to brew the 26th if that is fine.

 

[theveganbrewer]

You are all welcome to drop off your carboys at my place beforehand if you can't make it.

 

[ElectricAlphaAcidTest]

Hey hey! Just checking in! Maybe I missed it...
Do we have the grain bill mapped out for each individual?

So group pitch means we all brewing on that day or dumping the brew into the barrel?

Is there a group meet up for the ingredients buy day?

Super stoked!

 

[theveganbrewer]

We haven't gotten the recipe, but I figured a date would kick us into gear, and by us, I mean me

Yes, group pitch will be the day when we add all our different batches into the barrel. I think we should probably schedule next weekend for group buy. We can meet at brew brothers and get everything milled there to save us time and $$.

I'm going to go through and PM everyone just to make sure people know what's going on.

Between today and next weekend, let's get the grain bill decided on.

 

[Brewbien]

Between today and next weekend, let's get the grain bill decided on.

I'm still in favor of keeping it simple. Maybe the grain bill I proposed, we can switch the white wheat for unmalted if that's still what you want to do. We could also add some naked oats or not. What do you guys think?

P.S. @theveganbrewer Are you going to have any of that Heady Topper Clone available at the barrel fill? Would love to try it.

 

[theveganbrewer]

I'm still in favor of keeping it simple. Maybe the grain bill I proposed, we can switch the white wheat for unmalted if that's still what you want to do. We could also add some naked oats or not. What do you guys think?

P.S. @theveganbrewer Are you going to have any of that Heady Topper Clone available at the barrel fill? Would love to try it.

I doubt it lasts another week, but I might brew up another one in a couple days that we could tap on pitch day

 

[theveganbrewer]

Any updates on this? I was thinking keeping the malt bill simple is probably going to yield the best results. Perhaps the all grain version of this.

Maybe end up with something like:

8 Pounds 2-Row (or Golden Promise)
8 Pounds White Wheat
.5 pounds malto dextrin
4oz. aged hops

This is very similar to http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2009/08/lambic-3-turbid-mash.html so I think something along those lines will work. Here are his notes on the recipe, and the turbid mash: http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2011/03/lambicgueuze-tasting-almost-there.html

Maybe Pilsner base, White, Wheat, and Malto dextrin? What about yeast? Roselare or a Lambic blend? I'd like to pitch dregs from some wild beers on pitch day too.

I'm still trying to get my hands on some isolated bugs from Cantillon Iris too.

 

[Brewbien]

From everything I've read, Roselare has great results. Maybe everyone can bring their favorite sour on pitch day also.

 

[jhalloran]

I've used Roselare once and was pretty happy with the results. June 29th should be fine for me.

 

[jhalloran]

Should we bring some growler's of homebrew along for dump day or is it a dump-and-run?

 

[theveganbrewer]

Should we bring some growler's of homebrew along for dump day or is it a dump-and-run?

Definitely bring them over. What do you all think about the dregs? Should be pitch them on our own with the Roselare, or wait until barrel day? I'm used to pitching them at the same time, just wondering if that might be something to consider.

If anyone is going to go two Brew Brothers next weekend, we can get a list together of ingredients and call them soon to make sure they have enough yeast and grain for us.

 

[jhalloran]

Sweet! I think pitching dregs in the barrel sounds like fun. I have no idea how it would turn out. Did you have any specific bottle dregs you were thinking about? John's Market is on my route home, so I could pick up a bottle and drink most of it for science.

 

[ElectricAlphaAcidTest]

I just got a job with Brewvana as a tour guide! WOOO

 

[theveganbrewer]

Sweet! I think pitching dregs in the barrel sounds like fun. I have no idea how it would turn out. Did you have any specific bottle dregs you were thinking about? John's Market is on my route home, so I could pick up a bottle and drink most of it for science.

It's an effective way to increase the complexity in the final product. I know a lot of people like to pitch Jolly Pumpkin La Roja. You want something as fresh as possible. John's has some Jolly Pumpkin, Brouwerij, RR sours, Brouwerij 3 Fonteinen, Bavik.

Here's a list of some commercial beers with bugs in them:

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2010/06/harvesting-sour-beer-bottle-dregs.html

 

[iscribble]

FWIW, I'm still in for my part (thanks for the PM, vb). I'm available on all the dates mentioned above so whenever you folks like I'll be there.

I'm not sure I can do a turbid mash, as I have only one kettle and one burner (http://i.imgur.com/wVO9Isz.jpg) ...my kettle doubles as the HLT and I use fermentation buckets to collect the runnings.

That said, there is a decommissioned keg with my name on it at a buddy's house... hmm...

 

[theveganbrewer]

Would using some turbid mash wort and some not be a problem? Just wondering if maybe 20 gallons of turbid with raw white wheat and then 40 with regular mash and malted white wheat would be good for the Brett and bugs.

 

[Brewbien]

Would using some turbid mash wort and some not be a problem? Just wondering if maybe 20 gallons of turbid with raw white wheat and then 40 with regular mash and malted white wheat would be good for the Brett and bugs.

I can't think of any reason that would be an issue. May lead to some additional complexity, body, and mouthfeel in the final product.

 

[daevidallen]

Just posting to let ya'll know I'm still in and super excited. Don't we only need a few people to turbid mash if they pull a bigger turbid portion to make up for those who didn't? Or would we be missing out on complexity because of the differences in times and temperatures breaking down the starches.