Want to make some sour beer? Join my wine-barrel project in the Portland area.

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theveganbrewer

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I recently acquired and prepared a 59 gallon used pinot barrel from a local winery and am interested in creating a collaboration brew to age in the barrel. I have the space to add one more barrel if necessary. I'm thinking Flanders Red, Oud Bruin, or Lambic, but am open for suggestions. The barrel will be located in Beaverton, in a temperature controlled swamp cooler.

I am developing recipes and will soon introduce some bugs into the barrel. What I'm looking for are a few skilled homebrewers who want to brew part of the beer to add to the barrel. When it's time to split up, we can bring kegs over and split up the finished product and you can do with it whatever you want, be it further aging, adding fruit, bottling, or drinking.

I have a 55 gallon fermenter we could primary in, or each contributor could primary at their house and bring over the finished beer to add to the barrel together.

Please post your capacity here, as well as which style your interested in, and if you have any experience with sours. Thanks.
 
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theveganbrewer

theveganbrewer

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Will do. If anyone comes in and is interested, please post a message here so others can see it and gauge the interest in the project. I've had 3 others contact me through my blog and reddit, so we're at 4 so far.
 
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theveganbrewer

theveganbrewer

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How many gallons would you all like to contribute? Which style are you most interested in?
 

Ibrewaletx

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I've PM'd you but want to leave feedback in the thread for others as well.
I'm can contribute up to 10 gallons and am anxious to experiment pretty much with any style. An 'olde ale' that has actually been aged in oak with Brett & some bugs sounds pretty good - and historically interesting. But, I've enjoyed just about everything I've had from Cascade Barrel House.

The only 'bugs' I have are sitting at the bottom of a Flanders Red that I've had for about 10 months, just a pitch of roeselare blend from wyeast.

I'm in NE Portland
 

ElectricAlphaAcidTest

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I would be up for a lambic. Or (Cascade does this and I'm really fond of it) blend some Belgian Blonde and Tripels together, like their Figaro which is aged on Spanish lemon peel and Adriatic Fig (whatever those are).

I'm super down! I have a 15 gallon keggle. I could provide between 6 and 12 gallons after primary is said and done. I've been wanting to do this but just don't have the space. Plus I'm young so I don't know where I'll be renting in a year, I'll certainly be out west! Hit me up.
 
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theveganbrewer

theveganbrewer

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Ok, we have the unofficial registration going on now:

Me- 10 gallons
ElectricAlphaAcidTest- 6-12 gallons
My neighbor- 10 gallons
Ibrewaletx- 10 gallons
daevidallen- 10 gallons
iscribble- 5 gallons
jhalloran- 6 gallons

That puts us at 61 gallons out of 70 needed (angel share). I've sent PMs to those who haven't said how many gallons they can contribute.

I'd like to move into recipe formulation only once we get the contributors together. 9 gallons to go.
 

iscribble

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I've been meaning to join HBT for a long long time now; better late than never!

I would love to contribute 5 (or 5.5) gallons. I do not have any experience brewing sours. My wife votes Lambic, but I'm happy to go along with whatever the group decides.

If anyone is in Aloha (near the high school) and is interested, PM me and we can try to coordinate a brew day.


EDIT: Missed adding experience and style preference.
 
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theveganbrewer

theveganbrewer

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We're getting close now. What does everyone think about doing a group grain buy for this? Maybe we can try to meet up at a homebrew shop and buy the ingredients and split them up in the parking lot or something. We're probably going to need about 125-150 pounds of grain. We'll need aged hops if we go the lambic route, might need about 3 pounds of them. I've seen them at Uptown, not sure if Brew Brothers or Above the Rest have any.
 

iscribble

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It seems that if we forego spontaneous fermentation, aged hops are less imperative: No Need for Aged Hops ...I have no first-hand knowledge of such things though, it just sounds like an option.

As for buying 2-3 bags of grain, are we going to have the LHBS mill it for us? I've a hunch I'm not the only one without a mill of their own. Otherwise I'm up for either option (group or individual).
 
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theveganbrewer

theveganbrewer

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It seems that if we forego spontaneous fermentation, aged hops are less imperative: No Need for Aged Hops ...I have no first-hand knowledge of such things though, it just sounds like an option.

As for buying 2-3 bags of grain, are we going to have the LHBS mill it for us? I've a hunch I'm not the only one without a mill of their own. Otherwise I'm up for either option (group or individual).
I know Brew Brothers in Hillsboro could get us hooked up with grain cheap and mill it if needed. We could also call in a yeast order if everyone needed yeast.

I'll check out that BYO article, thanks.
 

Brewbien

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If you decide to go for an authentic lambic, I got aged hops at a pretty reasonable price from www.freshhops.com for a lambic I'm about to start. Also, I can contribute 5 gallons if anyone drops out. I'm in N. Portland.
 
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theveganbrewer

theveganbrewer

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If you decide to go for an authentic lambic, I got aged hops at a pretty reasonable price from www.freshhops.com for a lambic I'm about to start. Also, I can contribute 5 gallons if anyone drops out. I'm in N. Portland.
We still need about 10, so you can get in if you want. It's a 60 gallon barrel, but we'll need about 10 gallons of top up wort to keep the barrel full.
 

daevidallen

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My friend is down to contribute up to 20 gallons as well, he used to work at Uptown so maybe he could get us a discount too.
 

ElectricAlphaAcidTest

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http://www.brewbrothers.biz/Virtual-Bag-of-MaltTM

... Brew Brothers Virtual Malt bag program. I'm assuming pilsner malt is our base?

I'm a proponent of organic... 62.15 for 50lbs of Gambrinus Canadian organic.

If a Pilsen US malt bag says its 2-row pale does that mean it's 2 row pale pilsner malt or 2 row pilsner malt? The cheapest is either Great Western Pilsen at 34.50 or Canadian Pilsen from Gambrinus at 46.48.
 

iscribble

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I hope I'm not overstepping... it sounds like there are enough participants and maybe lambic is the general vibe?

What's next? Nailing down a recipe? Setting a timeline or schedule for brewing and combining? Are we combining (most of) the wort into veganbrewer's 55gal or are we combining after primary?

FWIW, my 5 gallon vote is for a fruit lambic. I will not be disappointed if we go another direction though!
 
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theveganbrewer

theveganbrewer

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Not at all. I am thinking of a solera style like http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2010/03/sour-solera-beer-barrel.html

I would prefer to have everyone add fruit on their own after barrel aging. I have read a few reports of these types of projects and that's how they worked. You can come after the bulk of aging is done and transfer out your part of the beer into kegs or carboys and take them home to add whatever fruit you want. At that point you'd have the option of bringing over more wort to refill the barrel.

Next step is recipe. Then schedule a combination date to put it into the barrel. I think we should plan to combine 1 month after pitching. Then we will schedule a group buy perhaps, meeting at Brew Brothers in Hillsboro.

I would like to inoculate the barrel with some bugs before hand too. Would like to get a hold of some East Coast Yeast bugs but haven't been able to. Anyone have them?
 

Brewbien

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Any updates on this? I was thinking keeping the malt bill simple is probably going to yield the best results. Perhaps the all grain version of this.

Maybe end up with something like:

8 Pounds 2-Row (or Golden Promise)
8 Pounds White Wheat
.5 pounds malto dextrin
4oz. aged hops
 

ElectricAlphaAcidTest

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What should the mash schedule look like? Is it a single infusion or do I need to step up with a protein rest on the account of the wheat?
 

Brewbien

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What should the mash schedule look like? Is it a single infusion or do I need to step up with a protein rest on the account of the wheat?
It's malted wheat so I wouldn't think there would be a need for it. Just single infusion to keep it simple and consistent amongst the many brewers.
 

Brewbien

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Don't we need unmalted wheat in a lambic, like a lot of it?
Not necessarily, the only reason to use unmalted wheat (and a turbid mash),besides tradition, would be to get more unfermentable starches for the bugs to chew on. We can a similar effect, and a more consistent product amongst the many brewers, by using malted wheat and mashing at a higher temp.
 
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theveganbrewer

theveganbrewer

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Looks like BugFarm IV ECY01 is going up for sale today or tomorrow so hopefully I can score some vials that we can use for this brew. Once I get the yeast going and can make a little starter batch to inoculate the barrel, we should be ready to seriously get this underway. Getting this yeast is what I've been waiting around for so I hope I can get it this time around after unsuccessful attempts over the last couple months.

I will try and nab a couple vials of ECY01 and ECY02 if anyone else wants to use them.
 
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theveganbrewer

theveganbrewer

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Haven't gotten it yet still waiting to see if they put this batch up for online sales
 

Ibrewaletx

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I would be very interested in a vial of ECY02 if it is available. I also like the idea of the malted wheat & higher mash temp vs. the unmalted wheat/protein rest.
 
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theveganbrewer

theveganbrewer

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I'm pretty pissed, I stayed awake until 6am yesterday waiting for them to put up their ECY01 and 02 and they never did. Not sure if they sold it all already or if they were busy doing something else. I'm going to wake up at 6 Monday and hope it's online.

Maybe on pitch day we can all gather with a bottle of Jolly Pumpkin each and pitch the dregs in together?

On the unmalted wheat, I'd like to know more about why we shouldn't use it. The more long sugars we have the better the beer will be. If you look at the Solera beer link above, they used a bunch of unmalted wheat and just mashed like normal.

Here was their schedule and grain bill:

Grain
-------
42.6% - 55.00 lbs. German Pilsener
37.1% - 48.00 lbs. American Pale Malt
7.9% - 10.25 lbs. Oatmeal
7.0% - 9.00 lbs. Unmalted Wheat
5.4% - 7.00 lbs. Wheat Malt

Mash Schedule
------------------
Sacch Rest - 90 min @ 156
Mash Out - 15 min @ 168
 

Ibrewaletx

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I'm pretty pissed, I stayed awake until 6am yesterday waiting for them to put up their ECY01 and 02 and they never did. Not sure if they sold it all already or if they were busy doing something else. I'm going to wake up at 6 Monday and hope it's online.
I'm on night shift right now, at work until 6:30am- let me know if I can help out looking/ordering online in the wee hours of the morning.

As for the unmalted wheat, good point on keeping the long chains which will not require another rest in the mash (122F for example). I'm all for the unmalted wheat in that case.
 

Brewbien

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On the unmalted wheat, I'd like to know more about why we shouldn't use it. The more long sugars we have the better the beer will be. If you look at the Solera beer link above, they used a bunch of unmalted wheat and just mashed like normal.

Here was their schedule and grain bill:

Grain
-------
42.6% - 55.00 lbs. German Pilsener
37.1% - 48.00 lbs. American Pale Malt
7.9% - 10.25 lbs. Oatmeal
7.0% - 9.00 lbs. Unmalted Wheat
5.4% - 7.00 lbs. Wheat Malt

Mash Schedule
------------------
Sacch Rest - 90 min @ 156
Mash Out - 15 min @ 168
I'm not saying we should or shouldn't use unmalted wheat, I'm saying that it wont make a difference because we aren't doing a turbid mash. Also, I prefer the flavor contribution of white wheat to regular malted/unmalted wheat. This thread should explain what I'm trying to say a little better. The mad fermentationist (oldsock on here) chimes in on this thread quite a bit.
 

Mr_Pear

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You still taking people for this? I have a vial of ECY01 I picked up a couple of months ago and I could contribute 5-12 gallons.
 
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