Very Noob Cider question(s)

[Blackhawkbrew]

I've only brewed two batches of beer, so I'm a complete noob at this. I want to make a hard cider for this summer and after reading this forum I think I'm more confused than ever.

First, I've read that some people have used apple cider and some have used apple juice. What's the difference (and easiest)? I know it has to be preservative free, right?

Second, I would like a slightly sweet cider, with nice appley flavors. What type of sugar should I use?

Third, what kind of yeast should I use?

Sorry for the basic questions, but I've learned so much from the posts here and I trust the information and expertise everyone has on this site!

Thaks again,
Keith

 

[HP_Lovecraft]

Apple cider is unfiltered apple juice, but anything can be used. I've even made fantastic cider by using just frozen apple concentrate.

If you add any kind of sugar (cane, corn, etc), it will make it drier, not sweeter. The apple juice itself also ferments very dry.

If you want a sweeter hard cider, you have many options. First starters , try using an "english ale" style yeast, like SafAle-04, instead of the usual wine-style yeasts.
If its not sweet enough, you can add splenda (which is mostly malto-dextrin), which will not ferment, and sweeten it up.

nick

 

[Greggy]

You might check into using Wyeast 4766 cider yeast.

Greg

 

[xcrusader]

Basically, use the cheapest juice/ cider... within reason.. it must taste good.. not like trash straight out of the bottle..

Yeast- going to ferment to different alcohol % and make it dryer. Do some research... I use an ale yeast... soo far I have no problems, I like the taste

Sugar- you have a few options here... Cane, brown, corn sugar, honey, ect.
some say it will make a huge difference.. all will work.. see what you like.. honey will ferment slower, brown sugar has been said to give a more "tart" flavor at the end of fermentation, cane has been said to ferment wierd flavors or "cidery".. but it is a cider... so give it a try. Corn sugar will ferment fully giveing you a dryer cider.

Back Sweetening- a good cider is a mix of flavor, sweetness, and dryness. Get a good alcohol percentage and then back sweeten before you bottle with a lactose or splenda... be careful here... you don't want to ruin your whole batch by sweetening to the point that you couldn't drink anymore than one a night.

thats all i know really... I'm still learning, but I have read a ton because I am working on a few ciders myself!

 

[Revvy]

Don't forget lactose as an unfermentable sugar that can be used when either making the cider or to back sweeten. I did 5 gallons of ED Worts Apfelwein with 1/2 pound of lactose in the mix...and it tastes perfect to me.

 

[placervilledan]

Cider is a lot more like wine/champagne than juice. A lot of people make a batch expecting it to taste like an alcoholic martinelli's, which it doesn't. Don't get me wrong, cider is fantastic. It just doesn't taste like juice any more. Why not get a couple of gallon jugs, and try different combinations? One with a fresh-pressed juice from an orchard, another with Tree-Top, a couple of different yeasts, sugars and so on. It is really hard to mess one up, and just about everything you do will have something redeeming about it. I'm currently drinking a cider that was made with a TART but sweet fresh-pressed juice, and Lalvin EC-1118 yeast. VERY good. Simple too.

 

[Crossczek]

It might be worth noting that you should use unpreserved juice/cider. You can use (heat) pasturized ingrediants but the juice will not ferment if it's been preserved. For best results nothing beats fresh pressed stuff right from the orchard, but it's a little late for that.

If your going to back sweeten, you can also treat your cider with metabisulphite and sorbate. Splenda's fine, but if you want to back sweeten with fresh juice, a concentrate, honey, brown sugar, or just plain white sugar, you'll have to prevent a renewed fermentation.

I just back sweetened 3 corneys with some concentrate and treated with the sulphite and sorbate. My wife siad it tastes like Strongbow...I think she's trying to butter me up for something.

Good luck, and cheers!

 

[Blackhawkbrew]

I just talked with my LHBS and they told me that I would have to get unpasturized cider and that I'm out of luck this time of year. I live in Cleveland and she also mentioned something about it being illegal to sell unpasturized cider. So my question is, what can I use now? HP_Lovecraft mentioned having good results with frozen apple concentrate. What kind and what should I be looking for on the lable? Would it be worth going to a local health food supermarket?

I'm thinking that time is running short if I want it for this summer.

Thanks for all the help!

Keith

 

[placervilledan]

It might be worth noting that you should use unpreserved juice/cider. You can use (heat) pasturized ingrediants but the juice will not ferment if it's been preserved.

Not all pasturization is bad. Like Crossczek said, the heat-method kills anything in the juice, but doesn't add chemicals that will kill any yeast you add. Many many people (myself included) have made great stuff with juices from your local supermarket. Look for things that say "no preservative". Also, look at organic stores for juice.

 

[HP_Lovecraft]

What kind and what should I be looking for on the lable? Would it be worth going to a local health food supermarket?

Typical "Bad" preservatives are potassium sorbate, sulfur dioxide and sodium benzoate. Some have said here that they can kill the yeast.

Some "Good" preservatives are citric acid, and ascorbic acid (ie Vitamin C). These are harmless to yeast.

Supermarket juice, that has been pastuerized is usually just treated with the ascorbic acid, since it has already killed the germs, and is now in a clean sterile container.

Apple cider seems to be the ones that may be unpasturized, but treated with sulphates, or sorbates to kill the existing yeast? However, if you live near apple farms, you have a very good chance of getting fresh preservative-free apple cider.

 

[xcrusader]

the bottle of juice should say 3 things (100% juice, water, and ascorbic acid(vitamin C))

 

[Sloppy Sam]

You might check into using Wyeast 4766 cider yeast.

Greg

I used that on my last batch. It is very tasty. But very tart and dry. I love it but some people don't. They get all excited about cider, thinking American style cider, being sweet and then pucker up.

 

[Crossczek]

My local brew/wine store sells concentrate that I have used to backsweeten my fermented (fresh pressed) juice with. They sell it as an "apple wine concentrate" but I'd be willing to guess that if it was diluted down to regular strength and fermented it would do just fine.

If you're looking for a good/simple summer refresher I might do something like this (and start now):
5 gals juice (from concentrate, no preserves)
A little extra sugar for good measure ( I'd use 1/4 cup honey per gallon, more and some might call it a cycer but it does add an additional alcho-boost...I mean flavor)
A medium stength yeast
Pectin for clarity
Ferment to completion
At this point it may have very little apple taste...which is very typical (hard cider doesn't typically have much an apple taste)
To your 5 gal batch, add another measure of concentrate that would normally make 1 gal of juice (to make a more palatable american cider)
Acid to taste (or not)
Sweeten to taste (or not)

At this point, anything but kegging to carbonate is above my advice as I would use sorbate to prevent further fermentation, sweenten and keg. Without sorbate any sweetening after fermentation adds a little more to the carbonation/fermentation formula. Just remember, you can always add more sugar.

 

[dan_slaughter]

ive got an added n00b cider question. i made 2 gallons of ed wort's apfelwein recipe and its been sitting for 2 weeks so far. there was some very active fermentation and cloudiness but is now getting pretty clear. is this normal? I was planning on keeping it in the primary for another 2 weeks and then bottling conditioning/aging....and no, i dont have a hydrometer. im getting my tax return this week and will be ordering online/buying from lhbs a serious kit.


thanks

dan

 

[mrk305]

yes.... wait two more weeks for a total of one month

 

[Blackhawkbrew]

Crossczek, that recipe sounds easy enough! I was wondering about the honey though. Would you just add it to the primary bucket as is and stir it in? Also, I'm new to brewing in general, what is a "medium strength yeast?" Should I use a cider yeast? Oh, one more thing, is the pectin necesary and how much?

Again, thanks for the advice!

Keith