VERY LOW efficiency when sour mashing?

[Bisco_Ben]

So I have attempted two sour mashes recently, and noticed that I have absolutely awful efficiency when doing so. First attempt, I soured 3lbs pilsner in 1 gallon of water. Mashed at 162 for 40 mins then raised to 170 for 10. Then did a main mash with 2lbs pils, 5 lbs wheat and .75lb acidulated malt. I wound up at only 1.046 on a 5.5gallon batch. This time I did the same mash schedule but with 5lbs pils and 1.5 gallons water. Then added that to a mash of 5lbs wheat and .75lb acidulated. Now im looking at a gravity of 1.038 on a 5.5gallon batch (although i mashed low by accident this time at 145*F). Can anyone explain to me why I could be having such horrible efficiency when sour mashing, yet when doing a normal brew im about 80%+.

 

[jfr1111]

Maybe your pH drops too fast out of effective the effective range for conversion ? I'm not too sure on your technique/process from reading your post (caveat: I might just be dumb).

Have you taken measurements ? It could also be the big amount of wheat. I always get crap efficiency with a big proportion of wheat malt in the grist even though it is supposed to convert itself.

 

[Bisco_Ben]

Well when i mash the souring portion, it sits at 162 for 40 minutes then 170 for 10, isnt that enough? And the main mash just mashes as normal for 60 minutes before adding the soured portion so i dont know about that being the problem. And similar grain bills for say my belgian wit come in around 75% efficiency when these are well into the 60%'s. I do not have a pH meter though so i dont take measurements. I do take all my preboil and post boil readings though so that is how I know I am coming in so low. Could the lacto be eating some of the sugars during the sour mash which is then giving me my low preboil grav reading after everything has been mixed?

 

[jfr1111]

Well when i mash the souring portion, it sits at 162 for 40 minutes then 170 for 10, isnt that enough? And the main mash just mashes as normal for 60 minutes before adding the soured portion so i dont know about that being the problem. And similar grain bills for say my belgian wit come in around 75% efficiency when these are well into the 60%'s. I do not have a pH meter though so i dont take measurements. I do take all my preboil and post boil readings though so that is how I know I am coming in so low. Could the lacto be eating some of the sugars during the sour mash which is then giving me my low preboil grav reading after everything has been mixed?

This leads me to think it might be anecdotal. Check your grain mill settings again. For wheat, I know I want to mill finer since the grains aren't as plump and my pos grain mill gets out of whack every three brews. I doubt the lacto is eating enough sugar while sour mashing for it to explain a double digit drop in efficiency, but I've been known to be wrong.